From Toronto to Istanbul - the Ex-Pat Experience (Ep. 4)

Transcript

Christopher (00:00):
Hey everybody, I'm Christopher Mitchell from traveling mitch.com and you're listening to Travel Fuels Life.

Drew (00:19):
Hello everybody, and welcome to Travel Fuels Life, the show we share stories, tips and inspiration to help you live a travel lifestyle. I'm your host, drew Hanish, and this week I have a special guest on Christopher Mitchell from traveling mitch.com is here. He is a writer and a freelance photographer. He is also the host of his very own podcast called Rick Steve's over brunch, which is very interesting. He and his co-host go over some of the episodes of Rick Steve's shows and give their own experiences from those, so something for you to check out. And Christopher and I met in a strange way. We met on a bus going to Watkins Glen, New York. And so we had a nice little chat back and forth and he was telling me all about his hometown of Toronto and what really perked up my ears was when he started talking about his time as an expat in the country of Turkey.

(01:16):
And there are some places that we sometimes hear a little bit unsettled, and so we wonder whether we really should go there or not. And so I thought it'd be great to have him on the show and share his positive experience that he had with the culture and the time that he had there. And he's got some fun stories to share with us as well. So from my home here in Greenville, South Carolina, it's time to pull up the laptop, jump on the worldwide web and connect with Christopher Mitchell. And Chris, you are joining us from north of the border, correct?

Christopher (01:52):
That is correct. Yeah, it's nice and cold up here. So yeah, I'm born and raised in Toronto and when I was about 16 I sort of took off and didn't really stop properly until about a year ago. And now I'm back in Toronto and providing less worry for my mom and dad, which is good. But in all honesty, it's, it's been actually really nice to get back to Toronto. Toronto thankfully is a very diverse city and that means that actually whenever I'm missing a particular culture, I can just go to that neighborhood in Toronto because every everybody's got a neighborhood. It makes World Cup pretty fun. And I'd like to think we're an example of how a multicultural city can thrive. I'm biased though, of course,

Drew (02:44):
Right, right. Oh, I love Canada and I travel up there quite a bit. And I know Canada, in terms of immigration for a long time was very, very proactive in trying to bring in people from all over the world. And Toronto seems to be the gathering point, I guess, for everybody in Canada.

Christopher (03:02):
Yeah, it is. I mean, it makes sense because I think the greater Toronto area has something like 8 million people or something like that now, which when you think about it on the broader scale, that's roughly one fifth, one fourth of the population of the country. Wow. So it makes sense. And I think as far as I understand it, over half of Toronto at this moment was born elsewhere. And that makes it a great gathering point in a way that's the glue that makes everybody feel Canadian. And I think it's a humbling thing because I'm born in Toronto, but that doesn't make me any more Canadian than somebody who's just arrived. We, I'd like to think that we're a city that has open arms and to be honest, the whole country and city at large, we'd be nothing without the immigrants who came here. I think it's fair to say that Canada was built on the back of immigration, there's no question.

Drew (04:06):
Yeah. So you've traveled to 79 countries, five continents. How has your experience with that multicultural Toronto changed in terms of your feeling from before you went to now that you've seen so much of the world?

Christopher (04:25):
Yeah, it's a good question. I think it's changed tremendously because when I was a kid, I'd go to these different neighborhoods, this little India or the Danforth, which is predominantly Greek. We have two Chinatowns. I think when I was a kid, I just assumed that that's how all cities were. And in fact, when I started traveling to other places, I realized actually how special Toronto was in that regard. And I think actually growing up in Toronto prepared me to travel to other countries and just sort of embrace the culture there. Nothing was terribly unfamiliar when I went to India for the first time. I could recall, I dunno, going to a friend's house as a kid who was his parents being from India or what have you. So I think it's sort of twofold. On the one hand I started traveling and there were all these places that I was so curious about because I had friends who were from there or what have you. And then on the other hand, I think having left and traveled so extensively, thankfully I was able to have a new appreciation for how authentic Toronto is. For example, I used to live in South Korea and when I'm really missing South Korea, I just go down to Koreatown in Toronto and get some barbecue and then go to the Ong, which is karaoke. And for some moments you can almost forget that you're in Toronto minus the price. It's a little cheaper in Korea.

Drew (05:53):
So are you one of those that you go in and when you're tasting something locally you go, yeah, that really reminds me of the place, or nah, maybe that's not quite as authentic as I remember.

Christopher (06:07):
I mean, I think Toronto's actually is great in this sense of it's not even someone trying to replicate what it would be. It's just really the exact same dish with Canadian produce. For me, I'm very cognizant of the fact that particularly with taste, I feel like taste really breeds memory. And for me, when I'm I, I'm sort of taste and smells bring me back to other places. And so for me, actually, I'll mostly go by smell. If I walk into a place and it smells like my favorite local joint in Korea for then, I know it's authentic, but I've always felt that that taste is something that it really can transport you. And so sometimes when I'm missing a country or a, like for example, having lived in Turkey for three years, if I'm really missing Turkey, I'll just go and get a Turkish breakfast in Toronto. And for a moment I'm transported back to Istanbul.

Drew (07:09):
That's awesome. Well, and you's funny because I'm sitting here thinking we're going to talk at the end about you promoting Toronto, but you've done an excellent job of it so far. So there you go. Didn't even have to. Yeah,

Christopher (07:22):
They should be paying me more, huh? Yeah,

Drew (07:24):
There. Absolutely. Absolutely. So how did you get started in terms of your travel? Did you play tourists a few times and see how that went? Or did you actually move somewhere to get started? How did that all come about?

Christopher (07:41):
Yeah, so I would say that probably the seeds were planted when my family, I was about 11 years old, my family decided we were going to take the train from Toronto to Vancouver and if the size of Canada took us roughly two weeks. But I remember looking out the window when we were going through the Rockies and seeing those snowcap mountains. And I thought to myself, if this exists in Canada, and I had lived in Canada my whole life and I thought, what exists elsewhere? And so that planted a seed for me, which I never really lost. And actually when I was 16, I actually spent a month in Ireland on my own, and I was doing basically a writing program at Trinity College in Dublin. And I realized then and there that travel was going to play a tremendous role in my life because that childlike curiosity that I had when I was 11 years old looking out the window, I've never lost it.

(08:49):
And that's something I never think I'll lose because new countries excite me. There isn't a replacement for that excitement for me when I'm on a plane going to a new destination. That feeling to me is priceless. And there's no country in the world that I don't want to go. So I still have some work to do, obviously, but I can't say I'm upset having traveled to 79 countries in over a thousand cities. I always say this, that the Olympics are a lot more exciting because I have a personal connection to so many of those countries. And I think also travel is a great way to battle ignorance and to battle prejudice because when somebody mentions a country and says something about it, I can unequivocally refute that based on my experiences.

Drew (09:45):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. When I was younger, I used to move around from place to place. I lived in Philadelphia, then I lived in Dallas, and then I lived in Nashville and my friends thought I was crazy. Where are you moving to all these different places? But I sort of felt like you don't really get to know the people or the feel of a place or get a sense of what an area is until you actually get to move there and integrate yourself in. And so I guess on an international scale, I can imagine how that really helps you build some friendships around the world.

Christopher (10:19):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I got married in July and we had people coming in from all over the world and that was a great feeling. It was a great feeling to look out and see all these people that we, I was going to say collected, but I think connected with is probably

Drew (10:39):
Another,

Christopher (10:40):
A better term. And my wife loves travels as much as I do. I feel extremely fortunate to have lived in so many different places. And I think it's funny, I never really thought I was going to come home per se. And I think home to me is an ambiguous term anyways, because I felt at home in Istanbul and Seoul and Oslo and Dublin and wherever I was, I even lived it for a period of time in a town of 4,000 called Pearl Lagoon in Nicaragua. So I think for me, I don't know, I mean, just cognizant of the fact that I feel blessed to have a lot of people in my life from all around the world. And to be able to have those stories in my heart, it allows me to share stories I think with some genuine love and authenticity for the place that I'm writing about.

Drew (11:44):
Yeah. Now you mentioned Korea and Ireland. Was Istanbul the place you lived the longest or did you live somewhere else for a longer time?

Christopher (11:52):
No, no. Istanbul was the longest. And I think that's why my love for Istanbul was so deep. And of course 2014 to 2017 in Istanbul was a tumultuous time. I think having stuck it out for those three years and seen so much, I mean it's, I have a bond with that city and that country and the people of those country that's almost unbreakable at this point. And I think regularly of Istanbul, in fact all the time. I think it's a city where if you live there for three years, you're going to carry that experience with you everywhere. I, it's an imprint on my heart.

Drew (12:44):
So what drove you to Turkey initially? Did somebody say, Hey, I've got a place for you to stay? Or w was it a destination that you had had on your list for a long time?

Christopher (12:56):
So actually it came about, my wife and I are both certified teachers in Canada, have our masters in teaching as well. But we actually went to a teaching fair and it's a wild experience. It's in Kingston, Ontario, and there's hundreds of schools from around the world and you just go and if there's a mutual interest, you have a meeting with them. And so we had a whole bunch of meetings with a whole bunch of schools and you have to basically sign on to go to this place on the spot, you know, have to make a judgment call. So we hit it off with this school and in Istanbul, and at the end of the day they said, Hey, what do you think about coming to teach for us? And we said, sure, let's do it. And called the folks and said, Hey, we're moving to Istanbul.

(13:53):
We had been to Istanbul in 2010 and loved it. And we just thought, why not? And I think that's very much our attitude is that every place in the world has value if you know what you're looking for. So I wasn't terribly worried about where I was going to live next. I know my wife and I both feel like we can make the best of any situation. I learned, I learned Turkish and I mean, I'm very happy we ended up there. But yeah, that's ultimately what happened. School said, Hey, do you want to come to Istanbul? And we said, let's do it.

Drew (14:31):
What were you teaching? Were you teaching English or

Christopher (14:33):
Yeah, the subject, so I'm not English as a, not esl, but I basically had two homeroom classes and I would, was teaching the subject English to both of them. And I taught primarily grade five and six. And I was doing a whole bunch of other things there as well. I founded a kind of an ex expat Canadian group and we had regular meetings. I wrote for a magazine there called Yanji, which means foreigner. And I also played professional hockey in Turkey,

Drew (15:13):
So Wow, did not know that about you.

Christopher (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, I was busy. So that was a really interesting experience. Cause I was traveling via plane all over the country on weekends during the hockey season. Oh

Drew (15:26):
Wow. So you really did get to get a full view of Turkey as a country then?

Christopher (15:32):
Exactly. And I was traveling to cities and going into rinks all over. I played in the Turkish super league, so it's the top league. So I think there was six other teams who were in the first division of the Turkish Super League. So I was traveling regularly to IME and of course in Istanbul, friends would come out to games in Istanbul, which was a fun experience. And I went to some places which are closer to Russia, like a room mountainous, snowy city with an affinity for hockey, I suppose. But that was a really interesting experience for sure. I love that. Yeah.

Drew (16:14):
So how many Canadians were on the team versus how many I, I know you had a multicultural team, I'm sure. Were there a lot of players from Turkey or were you finding, you know, had a couple of mates from Canada there as well?

Christopher (16:32):
Yeah, so I think there's some legislation that you could only have a certain amount of foreigners on each team, maybe five or something like that. So on my team it was just me and one other American guy. But there were other teams with some Ukrainian players, Russian players, I think predominantly US foreigners wise at least. It was predominantly Russians, Ukrainians, Canadians and Americans. Yeah, it was a tremendous experience. It was actually funny. I was actually just drinking in a bar, kind of my local watering hole in Istanbul. And I had a friend come over and say, Hey, you're Canadian, you must be good at hockey. And I was like, well, I feel like that's very presumptuous, but yes, yes, I'm good at hockey. And he said, do you want to play hockey in Istanbul? And I said, is that a thing? And he said is, I went out for a practice and I borrowed a whole bunch of equipment and right after the practice I said, can we sign you? Nice? And I said, yeah, sure, absolutely. It was a fun experience.

(17:53):
I think I had a pretty good season. I had a six goal game at one point, and definitely hitting was my forte. I mean, I could get away with a whole bunch because I think in Canada it's a big time hitting, so you better keep your head up. But I think some of the Turks didn't know how to keep their head up, which made for some beautiful hits. Nice. And it was streamed live, so my parents would be watching live streaming from back in Canada and they'd be like, you really destroyed that guy. But yeah, they came after me for sure after I, because I was hitting their star players. They came after me, but I welcomed it, I loved it. I thought it was a blast.

Drew (18:36):
That's crazy. So how much Turkish did you know before you went?

Christopher (18:43):
I did some Duolingo and memorized and stuff like that, just some basic programs to try to get me started. I probably studied intensively for six or seven weeks before I went and then continued to practice. I had a Turkish teacher who over Skype. I went to meetups to speak Turkish. I actually really dove into it, but before I left, not much. And I think I thought that Istanbul would be more, I guess accepting of just using English, but you know, get ripped off if you don't know enough Turkish. Oh really? It's just the way it is. Okay. So yeah, I left nearly fluent

Drew (19:29):
And I guess after three years it's a survival instinct to make sure that you got as much down as you possibly can. Plus I guess if you're like me when I travel or when I'm in a place I want to talk to people, I don't want to just ask where the bathroom is. I want to know what they're about. And if I don't have their language at least to a certain extent, then I feel like I'm missing something.

Christopher (19:53):
And I think that feeling is actually totally warranted because the experience, I mean, I don't want to call out any of my friends who didn't put in the same effort as me, but I think the relationships I was able to have with people in the community, I mean, I went to a barber in my area who spoke only Turkish. And how much more rich was that experience? I mean, it was a richer experience because I spoke Turkish to him all the time. And when I left after three years and I was able to sit down and be like, Hey, this is my last haircut with you. And basically tell him I got nothing but love for you. And he gave me a bottle of homemade Rocco, which is the national liquor. And it was so funny because at first our haircuts would be 20 minutes, I'm figuring out Turkish, this, that and the other. And it was more expensive. And by the end it was less expensive. The haircuts would take an hour, hour and a half because we'd just be chatting and he, he'd always get me a little bit drunk off of a homemade vodka. So for me, it went from something that was pragmatic. I needed to get my haircut to something which I genuinely looked forward to. And I think I gave him a bottle of maple syrup or something before I left a good Canadian.

Drew (21:14):
Yes, absolutely. Well you could give him some Canadian whiskey I guess if you wanted. Yeah. But yeah, exactly. So when you first got there then I, when traveling to different cultures, I've heard people say, well, it's better to probably not go in wearing blue jeans and looking like you're American tourists. When you go into the place and after you've lived in Istanbul for a while and you're seeing tourists come in, what is your impression on a strategy that you should take when going to a place like that? Should you try to blend in a little bit more or you feel like it's fine, just be yourself kind of thing?

Christopher (21:59):
Yeah, it's a good question because Istanbul is a place that's very difficult actually to travel to in the sense of there's a lot of cabs that'll rip you off, A lot of people will rip you off. I mean, there's not a lot of written down prices in a lot of ways. So you'll sort of get what's coming to you. If my biggest advice would be to learn a little bit of the language, I think it's not even about having a command of the language as much as letting people know that you respect the country enough to learn a little bit. And that's kind of my feeling about it. I think I'll tell you this, I mean, having lived there for three years, I took great pride in how I was able to navigate that city because it's a very difficult city to navigate. And it's the sort of city where you either find a way to love it and you thrive because you give yourself to the city or the city will kind of eat you alive. I mean, it's a city of, it's on an undocumented level, probably about 20 million. And so I think you have to be prepared for that. It depends what you're looking to accomplish there. I think you could probably stay in the old town and just go to touristy restaurants and have that experience. But I would strongly recommend learning some Turkish and coming in there prepared. I think Istanbul is a it difficult city in some way for a tourist, but it's also deeply rewarding.

Drew (23:29):
So if somebody wanted to take an exploratory trip around Turkey, besides I, Istanbul, for me, I'm not huge on crowds. I definitely want to see Istanbul, but getting out a little bit beyond the main touristy areas and finding some spots to go. Do you have some suggestions of places?

Christopher (23:51):
Yeah, definitely. I, first and foremost, I think it's worth it to go to check out a few things which are really emblematic of what turkey's all about. Cities like Bodrum or Marmur or these sorts of places and Kosh, Alanya, et cetera. These are places which are on the shore and they really showcase the beauty of the Mediterranean. I think history wise, there's places like Ephesus, which is just incredible ancient ruins. And I think if I am saying there's one thing that you need to see, let's say you have two weeks and you're spending a predominant portion in Istanbul, and there's only one place to go for me, 100% Cappadocia. Kaia is the main city there is called Gome. And it's an extraordinary place. There's what they call fairy chimneys and you can go hot air balloon riding and it's just phenomenal. I think in general, Turkey just has no shortage of incredible places. I mean, I even went to places which are kind of all Turkish like trap zone. I went to places like Chesh May, which are lovely towns. I was lucky to spend a lot of time traveling around Turkey. And I think you, I spent three years doing that and I would love to go back. There's more that I haven't seen but would love to see.

Drew (25:30):
There's one spot that I really like to go to because I do these James Bond trips, but this one is near Syria. So the question is getting that close to that area. Donna is the town. Have you been down in that area?

Christopher (25:47):
No, I haven't. The closest I came to dealing with James Bond stuff would be in Istanbul in the, oh my goodness, I forget what it's called. It's a basement with water in it. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. I remember now. It's called the Basilica Cistern. Okay. And it's right across from the is Sophia and the Blue Mosque as well. But it's a really cool spot.

Drew (26:18):
So you did a blog post actually on seven Turkish phrases. So give us an example of one of those seven phrases, because to me as I was reading through that you were kind of giving a feeling for how those phrases, especially the first one, which I won't try to pronounce since do it much better than I did, but it kind of gave you a sense, it was something that we don't say in English really, but it's a phrase that you thought was a beautiful phrase that kind of spoke to the Turkish people and how they think.

Christopher (26:52):
Yeah, and actually in that article I was really trying to showcase phrases that we just didn't have in Toronto. And that's why I said I think the article is something like Miss I will Miss it. And I think the first one's Coli Gelson, which you would say particularly at work, and you're just telling someone, I hope it comes easily for you. And I think the main one that I used would be Inshallah. And of course if you separate it, it's a phrase, you're talking to Allah, it's religious, but it's become common where basically you're saying you make a comment, let's say mu, which means I'm happy and you'd say, inshallah, I'm happy, God willing, so to speak. Basically you're saying inshallah, you're accepting that fate exists, you're saying, I hope this happens. Inshallah, I always loved saying AFI to Olsen, which was before every meal you basically say Bon appetit, I hope it's good.

(28:03):
You know, stop Ato Olson. And you say, if you say a brother, for example, you say Abi ato Olsen Abi. Yeah, I actually loved it because it would be the sort of thing where eventually I'd be out in a cab with three or four other people and they would turn to me and be like, how can I say this? And I was kind of the go-to person for Turkish. And I think the main thing is that it showed my commitment to really diving into the city. I think wherever I move to, I always try and learn the language and I think it's just really, it's the easiest way I know how to pay my respect to the place. And I think there's far too many North Americans who go to a place and just repeat English over and over again. It doesn't make sense if somebody doesn't speak any English and you're like, I'll have that one.

(28:55):
The person doesn't understand what you're talking about and ultimately just go ahead and point. But I would say any place you're going to, you should know the 20 most common words at the very least. And I think that just really, it's my way at least of trying to show respect. I think what's happening around the world. I mean, I'm not upset that English has become the language that everybody wants to know a part of I, I'm not upset about that. But at the same time too, I don't want that to wash away languages because I think at least it's my feeling that being nearly affluent in Turkish before I left, I developed a lot of relationships with people because they knew that I didn't necessarily have to do that, but I spent a lot of my own time doing that too, to try and get the most out of my time in Istanbul.

Drew (29:48):
So what's your sense of how things are in Turkey right now and in a place where there's a elevated risk of terrorism or there's other bad news coming out, how should that tain our feeling about going to a place?

Christopher (30:04):
Yeah, it's a good question. Mean for me, I think there hasn't been a major attack, I don't think, since April of 2016. And while I was there, I think there's probably seven or eight major attacks. We actually watched one of them happen. We saw from a FE'S wedding, we watched the bombing outside of Beta Stadium, which I think there was something like 150 fatalities or something like that. And I ended up speaking to CNN about it. But I don't think the Turkish people are extraordinarily resilient. And I think it's probably no surprise that Erdogan, once he had full power, the bombing stopped. I'll say that. I don't think that was a coincidence and not because he's particularly powerful. I think some of those bombings helped him to put forth legislation mean after the coup essentially. I think he kicked something like, or arrested 200,000 people, including my friend who was a dust journalist and that's allowed him to have control and now he has full control of the country.

(31:15):
I would say it's fine. I think it's fine to go there. The other thing to remember too is when I was living in Istanbul, my brother was living in Sydney, Australia and the park near his house, somebody was beheaded by somebody from Oh wow. From isis. And so I think it's worth remembering that for me at least, I think you should travel to the places that you have an interest for and what's going to happen is going to happen. I was in a place where my parents were more worried about, and yet my brother was in Sydney and that happened. And I think ultimately all you can do is just continue to chase that travel bug that you have inside of you. And statistically speaking, the world's never been safer, there's never been a safer time to travel. It's just that the news gets around faster. And that's ultimately what we focus on in the news is are these stories of, I don't know, terrorism, et cetera. Right? But there's obviously so much more going on and I mean the next day in Istanbul it might be a little bit quieter after an attack, but people kept living life. I was extraordinary.

Drew (32:32):
It, it's funny because maybe again, it's part of your upbringing. You came from a multicultural area. I grew up in Detroit. And so when you've lived in a place that after you move away, you hear all these people saying, why would you go there? And is it safe? And all it, you suddenly start to realize that it's the information people are being fed and they're getting one side of the story, but they're not really getting to experience what it's actually like there. And so people are holding themselves back from going to places that have a lot to offer.

Christopher (33:10):
Yeah, exactly. And I always really appreciate the quote from Aldis Huxley, the author of Brave New World, who says that to travel is to discover that everyone is wrong about other countries. And I think that's exactly it. I mean that's why I'm so keen on travel because we all have formed a bias and it's important to go and challenge that. And I think former Prime Minister for Canada, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, he said something along the lines of, you've got to leave your homeland to thank God for having one in the first place. And I think that's true as well. I'm not sure I knew why I appreciated Canada or what made Toronto special until I went to enough other places to be able to contextualize my life here. And I think both of those things, both of those quotes are really things that I think about pretty closely when it comes to travel.

Drew (34:09):
That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I'm going to say it is probably a good time for us to wrap things up. We got a little bit of Toronto in there and we got Istanbul and all of Turkey, so we covered quite a bit. I would say. What, so what's up next for traveling, Mitch, I saw you twisting pretzels the other day, so what's, what kind of stuff you got coming up?

Christopher (34:34):
Yeah, so lots coming up. I also founded the Toronto Bloggers Collective, so we have an event next week. I had an event this week with Germany tourism. I was just in the Finger Lakes again last weekend for Thanksgiving. The next major trip that I'm going away I, I'm doing a lot of stuff around Ontario. My wife and I will be on the cover of Hibernate Style insert in the Global Mail in Rough within the Month. Nice. So doing a lot of stuff around Ontario in that regard. In January, I'll be in New York City, I'm going to Arizona in February and lots of stuff on the horizon. But I'm, last year I spent a lot of time abroad and I'm trying to make sure I have a press trip actually at the end of the month with Toronto Tourism. So I'm trying to focus on what makes Toronto special and Ontario special.

(35:36):
And Ontario, as far as I can remember is roughly the size of 15 Irelands. Wow. When I was a kid, I just kind of thought, oh, Ontario. And I'm realizing that, think about that for a second. If this is a landmass that's 15 times a country, which I think I could travel for a lifetime, I, what am I missing? And so that's what I've been writing about, that's what I've been trying to figure out. And so that's on the horizon really lots of things and keeps me fired up and excited to travel. I think I took for granted the fact that I could be excited about travel around Ontario and Canada and from traveling around the US as well. I think going to anywhere new really enriches your life.

Drew (36:27):
Absolutely. So you and I are both into inspiring travel, so where are the places that people can go to be inspired by where you've traveled to?

Christopher (36:40):
So obviously my blog is more Ontario focused now, but I have tons of content on Asia, et cetera. You can go to traveling mitch.com and all social media traveling. Mitch, I always say one L cause I'm Canadian, but traveling Mitch one L on all social media, Pinterest, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. I'm active on all channels, which is nice and time consuming. And if you want to see some of my writing from different publications, et cetera, www traveling mitch.com/portfolio and you can see all that I'm about and hopefully having listened to me here, you want to hear more about what I have to say and you're not like, oh, I'm done with this guy.

Drew (37:24):
But

Christopher (37:25):
I think we, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Drew (37:28):
I was going to say, I think we've only just scratched the surface of interest in terms of what you've done. Yeah, yeah, I definitely appreciate you spending the time today. And I'll post the links in our show notes as well so they can go out to travel fields life.com and be able to listen to the show there or check out the show notes and I'll see if I can get some extra links from you as well and make it easy for people to connect with you and see what you're doing. It's a fas fascinating life that you've lived so far and it'll be fun watching you progress as you grow. And also learning more about Canada as we're seeing what you're doing in Toronto as well.

Christopher (38:12):
Yeah, and Ontario at large. And I think, well first, I appreciate the kind words about the stuff that I'm doing and it's humbling that people follow along and find my content useful. But when I first started blogging in 2010 and I was living in Norway and I was predominantly blogging to keep my parents off my back cause they were asking what I was up to and I just say, Hey, go to the most recent blog post. But I think now I really see blogging as creating itineraries and tools for other people to be comfortable traveling. And it's kind of the same mission that you have with this podcast, which is giving people real opinions of what places are all about and sort of softening the blow so that they can feel comfortable going there. And in the case of Ontario, it's really just for people to see what was always in their backyard that they might not have been taking advantage of. But I'm happy it, I know from getting e, I mean everybody can email me at chris@travelimage.com, but my approach has always just been to be honest and to be humble and to try and try and remember that everybody knows something that I don't. And I'm lucky to know the things that I do, but there's so much more for me to learn. I mean, I've seen 79 countries, but for me, I think about the countries I haven't seen while remembering that I'm fortunate to have seen so much.

Drew (39:38):
Nice. Well good. Well thank you very much Chris. I want to wrap things up and I think we could turn this into a mini series if we wanted to. Well so much to talk about in terms of travel and only, so that's why we give out traveling mitch.com because then they'll be able to exactly check out a little bit more of what's going on. Well, thank you very much and I look forward to seeing much more of your content down the road.

Christopher (40:02):
Yeah, for sure. Thanks so much to for having me on and anyone can feel free to reach out to me. I'm not too big to answer a message on any platform.

Drew (40:11):
All right, thanks Chris, and I hope everybody got a great feel for the experience of a multicultural Toronto. I think when you're planning out your spring and summer travel plans, it's definitely a place you'll want to consider lots to do there, underground Toronto and all the different multicultural neighborhoods that you can go visit. Sounds like a trip around the world without actually having to go around the world. I hope that was informative for you and that you enjoyed the episode. And until next week, I wish you safe travels. I'm your host, drew Hanish, and thanks for listening to Travel Fuels Life.