Ep. 9 - Glenturret Distillery's History Researcher Lucy Armstrong

Transcript

DREW (00:00):
Welcome to Whiskey Lore, the interviews I'm your host, Drew Hannush, Amazon bestselling author of Whiskey Lore's Travel Guide to Experiencing Kentucky Bourbon. And welcome to the first time release of my full interview with Lucy Armstrong, the development manager for Glenturret distillery increase Perthshire Scotland. Now Glenn turret has a fascinating history and Lucy, well, she's hard at work at researching that history and there's an awful lot of it. Glenn turret is said to be the oldest working distillery in Scotland, going all the way back to its licensing in 1763. It also spent some time as the home of famous grouse, which still uses their ten-year-old for the blends that it does at least until their stocks run out. And the whole reason I went to Glenturret was to research distillery cats. And one specifically cat named Towser. Who's the Guinness book of world records holder for mouse kills at a distillery.

DREW (01:22):
And you can hear that episode in my interview with Lucy's coworker Sheenaugh in season two's episode, the legend of a Mauser on whiskey lore, but while touring the distillery, I was also told the story of grace gal, a female distillery worker who met with an untimely death while working there in the 18 hundreds. And it's an interesting story because it not only tells us the dangers of distilleries, but also the presence of women in the distilleries in the 18 hundreds. So Lucy walked on down into the visitors center while I was finishing up my interview with Sheena, agreed to talk with me about grey scout and some of the other historical tidbits that she's discovering during her research. It's a fascinating discussion and a great chance for me to do some research, not only on the gray Scouse story, which ended up being its own episode during season two of whiskey lore, but also ask I have to do it. I have to ask my questions about James Bond. I was doing an episode around that as well, and to also discuss distillery fires, which is a subject that I want to cover in an upcoming episode. So let's go back to Scotland for my 2019 discussion with Lucy Armstrong of the Glenturret distillery.

LUCY (02:45):
Yeah. So grace go was the first documented female worker that we have here at Glen target. So very sadly we came across, we're doing a big research projects that we started some months ago on digging out all the history that we can find about the distillery and really get into grips with our heritage, because this is probably the biggest research project that we've done for Glen Torah and many, many years F ever. So we're finding some really nice gems. And one of the I let's for finding very nice information is by going through the British newspaper archives and you come across all these fantastic different articles. So one of the articles really caught our eye from the year 18, 17, and it was a report and newspaper report off a very sad and tragic death of a female worker here at Glen Talia.

LUCY (03:45):
So it happened on the 7th of January 18, 17. So grey SCO was one of the female workers here at the distillery. So she'd lived quite a hard life. Bless our, she had gone from basically being brought up in grief and the tone that's near the distillery. So she's been brought up here. She'd been a house servant and several different areas and cliff where she'd grown up and she had two children. She was never alone married. And she went yeah. On to eventually be a farm LIBOR or so really hard graft hard work. And the farm that she worked out was just the farm at the back of the distillery. So often what people would do is that they would run the farm in peak times. And then in quieter times during the farm, they would then use obviously the Byerlys and the CDLs to make a whiskey.

LUCY (04:43):
So that was absolutely true of Glen Tata being essentially something that was very close to local agriculture. And again, it was, it was essentially a farm distillery in the early days. So she eventually went on to work. We believe we don't have an exact date, but looking through the records in the archives. And we looked to archives such as Scotland's people where we can actually trace people back. And this is where we found that she was using this alternative, certain name, race Alexander, and there, it revealed a bit more about her. So sometimes she would use our mother's name, go in some teams, her father's name, Alexandra is it, it appears our parents would also not mine. So she from above 1861 began working alongside the farm here at the distillery. And when you read some of the newspaper articles, it becomes quite clear that one of her key rooms in the distillery that she works in was the tunnel and the tunnel room is where we basically go through fair mentation.

LUCY (05:54):
So a similar process and, and beer making other we're not using hops and things, but the ton of them can be quite dangerous as some of the, eh, the rooms in the distillery can be. So when you've got like alcohol vapors and things as well, so very much back in the deed also find that you get reports of fires and things that distillery, because you're, you're working with very high grades, but, but in the Tundra, the dangers there is that when you're fermenting your, your sugary water or what we call wart when it goes in with the yeast, basically what happens is that the yeast will attack all the lovely oxygen that's already in alongside it, if you, if you know what I mean in the atmosphere, and once it's eaten up all that oxygen, it'll start attacking the sugars within the wart.

LUCY (06:49):
So during that process, it creates alcohol, but also clicks carbon dioxide as one of the seeds effects or the if you imagine the byproducts off it, as well as the alcohol. So what happens in the ton nuMe is that usually what we do know is we make sure that there's like a lure room where the CO2 can fall, fall down into. So nobody usually goes in there. It's not, not used very often, but if you can imagine back in the 18 hundreds, they would have probably had open vats. So when the CO2 is produced, often it produces a froth called a barn. And that's why it's really the expression barmy mud comes through if you've ever had that. So you stay in your face and that, and you get a big waft of CO2 bubbles or knock your Seder is it really takes your breath away.

LUCY (07:47):
It's like a fizzy drink going up your nose, but quite intense. So you can imagine when the open VAT there would have been spelling over. So you would have got quite a lot of bubbles going over the side. So not late, we have it all controlled melodies, but also the open vats as well. There would have been a bit of hazard of people falling in them. So we don't know how Greece very sadly came to falling in one of the vats. Now, either when she's fallen and she's either sadly droned and the liquid, or it's highly likely because if you were to fall in there, there wouldn't be any oxygen at all, there would just be sealed to. So she would have been sadly suffocated from the lack of oxygen and the over spelling VAR alerted one of the other, her other colleagues.

LUCY (08:39):
And they found her sadly in there and the VAT. So interestingly in the reports, I mean, there's between the death certificate, which we were really able to find the original source of that, but also between all the reports and the different census records as well, all go for different ages. So some reports say she was a young woman, some reports just seem a bit perhaps hen she was a more mature woman. So we CA we have an age range for when she died. So we believe she was either kind of mid forties or mid fifties thereabouts, or she wasn't young, young, but she certainly wasn't very, very mature. So she was still in our prime, so it was very, very sad to read that she ended her life here. So,

DREW (09:31):
So women working in distilleries at that time, she's really one of the first to be on record or, well,

LUCY (09:39):
What was interesting of course is that at that time, typically you wouldn't off, and this sounds terrible, but you wouldn't have necessarily seen the death of a female, what could reported in such a unimportant manner. And the fact that that report talks about her there being a sadness around the area. So she was obviously well late had a lot of friends and family within the area. So it was certainly a very sad, sad recording, and certainly something that you wouldn't see every other day. You certainly wouldn't, wouldn't usually have a recording of death at that time for a female worker. So definitely was unusual not to see that she was the only what could an and, and a scotch whiskey distillery, but certainly there's not many of them recorded at that time. So very, very significant and special for us. Yeah.

DREW (10:33):
And so you're celebrating her with a whiskey IC.

LUCY (10:37):
We feel it's only right, that we should mark this great discovery and our heritage, and actually have a cast named after to really celebrate not just a past very important figure, but also, especially now you see such great women, what can whiskey. So it seems absolutely fantastic that we can celebrate a great part of our heritage who just happens to be a female worker, but we can also look to the future and look at all the, the bright talent and wealth of women in the industry that are making a huge difference to it, even though, and hopefully still in the future. So and they snowed.

DREW (11:19):
Did you find anything else in your searching through the archives that kind of surprised you, or

LUCY (11:27):
There's lots that there, certainly some I say ghoulish TEALS as well. I mean, there's been everything from a fire near what we call the bossy and we're all the Stillman basically sit there and have their pieces when they get, they get changed into their they're still, when I see outfit there, what can gear and they'll kind of gather there and we call a bossy, but both these could be up in the Highlands. It could be a weekend if almost like a, we shared every student shed. And it's often where a few drums were consumed as well, but we also tell them at the board, they were the, the our now. So there was a couple of instances of fire during the distilleries heritage. There was also very sadly a droning of a three year old boy, he was barely three, actually more, more kind of two, two to three.

LUCY (12:24):
And he very sadly died in the lead. Just further along from the little barn. And you also have a wonderful history about the fact that was another distillery, just literally a Stone's throw away from this distillery, which was at one time called the Horsch. And we had a distillery called the harsh mill just behind us. So at one point you had two family members an uncle and nephew who run the distilleries at the same time. So we like to think that they had to redraw them in the still house and chatter devote each of their productions. You've also got harsh mill was eventually dismantled and redirected. Don't in an area of critical deleting. The distillery was actually when it was redirected, was called Glen Todd. It was another reference to our, our name that we have now.

LUCY (13:19):
And that was erected by a female. The stellar called Elizabeth Phillips. So it looks highly likely that she was one of the first females in scotch whiskey to erect a brand new distillery. So another amazing discovery we of course have the quirky history as well with the cats and I'd heritage with, with animals. But yeah, we're, we're discovering great things every day. And I mean, it's looking more and more likely that we are actually a lot older than, than what the D above our doors. So we're, we're discovering very early history as well and rentals that go further back. So we just want to really finalize our refund before we can release it all and let people really read it in more depth, but I mean, it's like a lot of distilleries. It's just fascinating when you, when you delve into it. Well, and

DREW (14:19):
I mean, records really tend to be more thorough in the 20th century on, but trying to find stuff in the 19th and 18th century, are you basically looking at magazine? I mean, newspaper articles, so that's pretty much your only, wow,

LUCY (14:36):
Well, so we've got several different ways that we've been approaching it. So online newspaper articles, your right, we'll get you so far back. So certainly into the 18 hundreds we're using there is wonderful, there are wonderful archives and the national archives for Scotland and Edinburgh right on princess street. There's also the national library of Scotland as well, and Edinburgh, which also has its own unique library source. There are instant maps as well if the ETS or a lot of the names you have to be careful when you're researching, because you have to look at all the different deviations of your name. So Creef is spelled various different ways. And the small tone that's that's connected to us this area Horsch is spelled several different ways. The Glen Todd, it was known as Tata Glen and very efficient texts and maps.

LUCY (15:37):
So we've also been looking at basically when we go through all documents, we've got things like distillery, discharge, poachers, which were done in the early 18 hundreds. Then they tell you exactly how much I put this facility hard at that time. So they're amazing. And you can actually see the signatures. So at that time it was run by the drums two brothers and you can actually see their signatures and documents from 1820s, which is incredible. And you can also see they had Thomas McCool mesh, and then it went to Elizabeth Phillips, who was the female distiller. Her husband originally bought the distillery, sadly passed. We just a year later and has his wife took it on and her son's so incredible. And again, you can see their handwriting. So their excise men would have literally come down the road collected at harsh smell and collected here at Horsch and then went on to collect and many other distilleries because we are the only one still remaining. There were several distilleries even just increase. There was, there was quite a few in the area you're talking about, you know, 14, 16 distilleries and their own cliff area. So it was a real hive of activity. I know our, our closest distilleries are certainly at least half an artery. So it's just saying to the teams,

DREW (17:11):
When, when would you say the whiskey industry around here kind of tailed off and got down to just being you in the area?

LUCY (17:23):
I mean really around the kind of 1840s by the mid 18 hundreds, it was only us which is really sad to think, you know, in the 1820s you had, you know, as I say, kind of about 16 distilleries and this whole area, and then by the mid 18 hundreds, certainly by the late 1830s, early 1840s, you had ourself and the harsh distillery here, but you also have the Glen Tallaght distillery down at [inaudible] and they were the only two operating at that point. And then eventually that just became a tech stale a Lennon manufacturer sold to local textile entrepreneur, eventually that went out of business as well. But you're, you're talking certainly, you know, 150 plus years of us just being,

DREW (18:19):
Yeah. So that's right around the time that the excise tax came along. So were a lot of those probably illicit distilleries that faded off because of, yeah.

LUCY (18:30):
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think one of the things that really changed was because of the Highland Lulin lane and we, we set very close to that Highland Orland lane. And of course it was changed two or three times. So there were certainly a lot off shall we say, not always above board, moving off whisky. And this is why our history is really quite hard to document because a lot of potentially the whiskey production may certainly have been going on under the reader, certain points certainly in the 17 hundreds, it's fairly hard to track everything. And of course, let you see documentation is much better. Of course, no, it's wonderful. And we have access to the internet. We can look things up, but back then, you're really working from very old documents from rental documents. So for hops, for example, these LUNs were owned by, you know, very wealthy families who would have potentially erected things like disabilities.

LUCY (19:36):
And they would have rented the moat to people to run for them, and then just collected the rent or from moms, or they would say all that money would then go into the estate. But it is, is very tricky to try and look at when the boom times where, because there's been, so whiskey continues to go on this peaks and troughs lake canny industry, and you get real boom teams late they're late 18 hundreds. And then you get depths because, you know, again, so many different factors. And then if you take, for example, blended whiskey blended whiskey really didn't take off till the late 18 hundreds when you had the Philadelphia BHAG and you were, you had devastated venue yards and you then had, you know, this idea that Branzi, and that the Waynes that were fevered were then suddenly, you know, people were looking for something to fill that void and blended whiskey was created because it was, you know, lovely and well-rounded and flavor, and it filled that void beautifully in there. You see the peak again. And then of course in the early 19 scotch whiskey goes through again, that declaim because of, you know you have the corporation. Absolutely. And you have world wars very sadly, and you have maybe more stocks building up and then of course you get again, you know, especially single malt. Now you see it now we're on another high trajectory. So hopefully that will continue for a while. Yeah.

DREW (21:12):
Okay. I'm going to ask you a very strange question. A James Bond fan. Absolutely. Okay. So James Bond is Scottish and yet James Bond, I often hear get blamed for the whiskey depression of the 1970s and eighties. Do you agree

LUCY (21:35):
With that?

DREW (21:37):
Because of course he was drinking his martinis at that time.

LUCY (21:40):
Yeah. I mean, I suppose I suppose trains are massive as well. So when you look, I mean, you look at the gen trend as well and how massive that is an also interesting where you look at the move and shift, certainly in younger generation and not drinking a toll and choosing alternatives. And I think very much that I wouldn't like to see it still, that we contributed to any kind of declaim in scotch. But certainly I think trains and general appeal and, and that kind of romanticism of something in the media and then the spotlight, I think can only boost sales. Absolutely. but I think, you know, certainly when you see some of the latest films and you see how glamorize some of the older expressions and you probably know which brand I'm talking about. And, and certainly Skyfall, I mean, the, you know, the elevation that, that gives up brand and all sorts of scotch in general and the edge to beat as well and that beautiful 50 year old. So I think, yes, I think you can increase the profile. You can certainly increase the appeal and the the romantic ideal that if you drink this, you'll be, you know see it as cool as a James Bond character. But certainly I'm sure there would be other factors Jude in that time that would potentially affect the seal, but certainly hopefully we'll see them drinking Glen Tata at some point soon.

DREW (23:30):
Absolutely. So good. One last question would be about, cause you brought up the fire and I'm actually doing a, an episode around distillery fires, I guess they were a bit more prevalent, especially in the 18 hundreds. So w w about around what time did that probably occur?

LUCY (23:48):
Yeah. I mean the fire, I believe was early 18 hundreds. I can double check on that in the terms of the so many dates in my head, but certainly there was a couple in the 18 hundreds, so there would have been probably more. And certainly no, even, I mean, even though you get, you know, some instances because people don't realize, you know, things like dust explosions can occur. And certainly when we go on tour, we have to be really careful with, particularly with mobile phones or anything that can potentially have a spark because you have such volatile substances, but of course back then, you know, it was, I'm sure it was very Blazin. I mean, there would have been no health and safety. So it was, it was very prevalent that that that would happen. So but certainly you see it again, it's, it's all, but the newspaper, and of course it wouldn't be as documented previous to that, but yeah, it's

DREW (24:51):
No idea how those two or how the fires it started.

LUCY (24:56):
No, but again, you know, any, any Caney ignition source, so it could be, could be anything from a cigarette or could be, you know, something Dustin, that's just, you know, a spark that, because even tools, when you think about anything like a shovel on stonework or anything kids to the letter, they set it off. So it's yeah, it's quite scary how you do like to think about how dangerous it potentially is, but yeah. Especially for, for these workers and we think now you know, it's funny cause people go on new or health and safety, but actually, you know, as important because especially when we're taking visitors, writing and things, you have to put that in the forefront, but yeah, it's it's sad that that, that does happen. I hope you

DREW (25:44):
Enjoy my discussion with Lucy and maybe sometime during a return trip to Scotland, we'll get to talk more about some more of the distillery research that she's done. If you want to learn more about Glenturret, then go to their website, the Glenturret.com and to follow my travels on social media or to find whiskey Laura swag, like t-shirts tasting kits in my book, head to whiskey-lore.com and it's own next time. Cheers. And [inaudible] whiskey lowers or production of travel fuels life LLC.