Ep. 77 - Where Do All Of Those Great Bourbon Distillery Designs Come From?

Transcript

Drew (00:00:09):
Welcome to Whiskey Lore, the interviews. I'm your os Drew Hennish, the Amazon bestselling author of Whiskey Laura's Travel Guide to Experiencing Kentucky Bourbon. And today I have two guests who are going to relate very well to my book in that a lot of those distilleries that I visited are thanks to in Design. What has been done at Joseph and Joseph Architects. So I have two of the partners from the firm. We have Eric Husman and also Cash Motor, who are here to tell us a little bit about their history in the business of building distilleries. And I know you guys build a lot more than just distilleries, but we'll kind of focus in on that. Thank you for joining me today. Thanks

Cash (00:00:59):
For having us. We appreciate it. Yeah,

Drew (00:01:00):
Good to be here. So the first place I learned about you guys was at For Roses, because when we think about iconic distillery designs across Kentucky, to me the one that stands out is definitely for Roses because it had such a distinct design versus every other distillery that was being built, not only at that time, but even up till now because it has that Spanish mission style that that was popular, I guess, in California and somehow made its way over here. How much of that legacy do you know about why that design was was chosen and how you guys got involved in it?

Cash (00:01:50):
Well, so we, we have a, we have a good connection, you know, our, it's been a, it is been good hand down over the years from partner to partner and and generation to generation. And we still have a good, good relationship with the, with Joseph and Joseph the family the descendants of, of Al Oscar. And so, and we've done quite a bit of research, you know, over the years on our past history you know, that style. The, the original partners, Al and Oscar Joseph were Al was studied in studied boar style University of Pennsylvania. And so, and then eventually half the family moved out to California around the, around the thirties. So there, there's a, there's a good connection there to California, you know, so I don't know whether they had been traveling out that direction and, and were familiar with that style, picked it up there, or whether it was just an offshoot from the Boars style that they, that they had been studying in college and just evolved into that. But there's no, there's no, Yeah, it's, it's a, it's very distinct. Our early work is very distinct here in Kentucky. And we can usually pick out Joseph and Joseph building from the, from the teens in the twenties because of that.

Drew (00:03:10):
Yeah. So it was actually more of the architect's prerogative to go with that design style rather than the distillery owner,

Cash (00:03:19):
I believe. So. and so I don't know whether, which, which was a, it was chicken and the egg because the, the two brothers worked at another firm here in Kentucky before going off on their own and doing the so Four Roses was originally jts Brown Distillery. And so some of the early work they did at the other firm had very similar style as to what not as mission, I guess you'd say. It's a little bit more Boars but had some of the same flare to it that they were doing before they, they broke off on their own and took that. So I don't know whether they, whether they were hired because of that style to do to the distillery or whether or, or whether they, they proposed that to the client.

Drew (00:04:04):
It had to be helpful because for Roses has over the last few years, gone through a major expansion of their facility and just created a new visitor center, which I haven't actually even gotten a chance to go see yet. So how much do having all of these old plans available to you help in in creating these in large spaces? And how much did you go about building new facilities there? Or were you repurposing old buildings with this latest expansion?

Cash (00:04:39):
Well, that project, so the that one, the old drawings were, were a little helpful. They've changed so much over, you know, they, they've had the original structure there and of course but you know, over the pa literally over the past 110 years things have changed so much in that facility and it's added and, and grown. And, and so, so the original drawings were not they're a nice reference on that project, but were not as helpful as they have been on some other projects we've worked on. But it's been a nice but, but we did pull it so that, so working on the expansion of the distillery where they, they doubled their production size and really got an opportunity to really make a whole more holistic campus there that sort of pulled in some of the pieces that they've been building on over the years and really kind of cleaned up that whole campus and, and made it a really nice experience.

(00:05:36):
And so that was that was a really fun project for us to really kind of almost come full circle on that. Cuz that was, that was literally one of our, one of our first projects we did was in 1909. So we started in 1908 and that was in 1909. So that was a lot of fun. That was, that was a neat sort of generational touch from from the, the original architects to, to today. So that was a lot of fun. And then the visitor center was a little bit, was a a whole different piece. We really, we did really research some of our old designs, some really residential designs that we had done back at that time period. Cuz there was never that the intention was on that was to really make it look like a manner house maybe the master distiller's house, that that may have been there. There wasn't ever that sort of structure there on the, that we designed at least Yeah. Or that we could have find. But we did sort of build it with the idea that that's what it could be, you know, that, that sort of feel and really bringing that residential feel to it. And then before to get introduced to the brand, to the, the, the campus there before you go into the real industrial part of

Drew (00:06:48):
It. So where is that visitors? I'm trying to picture where you would've built that, cuz there's a parking lot above, and then the visitors center was immediately below that. Is is it still around that area?

Cash (00:07:00):
It is. So you have the visitors, the, the old visitors that are down and there's a parking lot, and then the new visitor center is right above there. So it's, it's, it's sort of where that parking lot, the grass area behind the parking lot there.

Drew (00:07:12):
Yeah. I wish I'd had gotten a chance to see the distillery. Well, the first time I went into that to visit the distillery, you guys were in the middle of working on it. So I got to see it after it was all completed. But I mean, this bourbon boom that's going on right now has got to be very handy for your business.

Cash (00:07:32):
It doesn't hurt. Let's we <laugh>. Yeah. it's been, it's been really fun to see, see the, the the whole industry come, come up together here over the past, you know, 10, 15 years. It's really, it's really neat to see the, the whole nation and and country really embrace, you know, our native spirit from Kentucky here. And, and, and sort of all, all tides rise together is, it's really neat to see all our, our friends and clients from the industry all, all doing well and growing and having really good enthusiasm moving forward, you know, for the future here.

Drew (00:08:07):
So you guys started a very interesting time for doing a distillery in 1909, and then of course, we're in the middle of the Temperance Movement. It goes into prohibition. Out of prohibition, there was probably some need for some building or touchups on distilleries. Did, do, you know, between, before this bourbon boom that we're in now, were you guys working on distillery designs during that era? Basically the late 20th mid to late 20th century?

Cash (00:08:38):
We, yeah. So we've you know, being in Kentucky that's always been a sort of a good industry, you know, in the state. And over our, you know, 115 year history now we've you can really track the ebbs and flows of the bourbon industry sort of through our, through our history. It's really neat to see we've, we've created a timeline, you know, as, as we've looked back and it's so we did, so we did quite a bit of work in the early 19 hundreds with the jts Brown. We did a Seagrams plant, major Seagrams plant here in Louisville and Chaley and then the original stit of Weller Distillery in Chaly as well, that it did really pick up right after Prohibition was repealed. And so there was, there was a huge, obviously a huge, massive boom then.

(00:09:26):
And it's, you know, from our history that's, it's really interesting to see the it's really concentrated to larger brands. So when we look back, we, you know, we did a lot of work for Brown Foreman was a big big boom then lots of warehouses. So we, we designed what, what was coined as the first fireproof whiskey warehouse at the time right around the, in the early thirties, I guess it would be, I think it was 35 is what we kind of credited as. So it was all concrete structure with, with intermediate levels. So six barrel, six barrels stacked on top of each other, and then another concrete str floor, then another six barrels. And so it was all, and that was, that was built, like I said, as as the first fireproof whiskey warehouse. Nice.

Drew (00:10:16):
Ever. Nobody put that to the test. I hope <laugh>

Cash (00:10:20):
As far as I know, luckily not. Yeah, I guess <laugh> maybe, you know, if, if it never catches on fire, I guess we, we were proved right. Yeah.

Drew (00:10:28):
<Laugh>. Exactly. So you, you redid my favorite distillery in Kentucky, which is Old Forester. In terms of doing a distillery tour. I tell people, if you wanna see all aspects of of distilling that is the most complete distillery because of the cooperage that it has upstairs, but also has bottling. And those are things that aren't normally seen. And what's amazing about that building, well there's many things that are amazing about that building is how much stuff you compacted into this one skinny building, plus the fact that it fits in so nicely with the architecture of that main street. And as I walk down Whiskey Row, there are spots where you see frontages, but no building behind it. Was that how you took over Old Forester at that time? Was it just a front without really having the rest of the building there?

Eric (00:11:34):
Yeah, so that one actually just to give a little more background on, on our recent history here. That was a project that was completed by Bre. And I at the time, this was kind of prior to cash and I even knowing each other worked for B Vira. And in, in 2020 we combined the firms and, and joined them together. So it was interesting kind of that you know, cash had a lot of distiller experience and, and, and Perve doing that old Forester job. And then the stars kind of aligned and, and we were able to, to bring the farms together. But so that project, yes, it was just the facades. There were no, no buildings behind. There was kind of the, the, the middle party wall, cuz it is two, you know, very narrow buildings there.

(00:12:27):
They were able to do some, some research and they have some actually a picture in there I believe in, in one of the tasting rooms or the event space upstairs of, you know, the people sitting there working, you know, way back in the day. So it, it's really cool in that, in that piece. But the buildings were, were so deteriorated behind that they, they had to be torn down, but we put 'em back in a, you know, it's, you go in there, you don't necessarily know that it was, it was new structure put in, but you know, trying to preserve that as much as possible. And it actually was, was very lucky. There was a, a very large fire that happened there and I can't remember the exact time there. And there's some buildings on the right side, and if, if it wasn't for those the backs of those buildings not being there, that fire would've spread and taken all of whiskey row out.

(00:13:18):
So that was, that was pretty lucky. But it did delay the beginning of construction there. And so, you know, we got, got started as soon as all that was sort of all shore up and and built everything in there that you see. So it is a lot, that's normally something that would happen over an entire campus that you have sort of in, in, you know, a very narrow strip there on Whiskey Row. But there's a lot of complications to that project, a lot of stuff that you don't necessarily see when you, when you take the tour that meet all the code requirements and maybe stretch the codes a little bit in some areas, but particularly that that cooperage was, was something to, to, to pull off you know, with the, with the open flames and everything there. Yeah, of course. You know, right next door to a functioning, you know, distillery making, making high proof alcohol. So it's

Eric (00:14:17):
It's, it's a great project and, and it really does, you know, show you everything in, in, in the industry.

Drew (00:14:25):
It's nice that I mean this is something that after having just traveled in Ireland and going to Dublin, they can't have whiskey warehouses in Dublin because there was a great fire in 1875. It took out a huge portion of the liberties area of of Dublin. And so, you know, it's, you walk into the distilleries and they have, you know, some barrels over here. We don't know if they have whiskey in them or not, but you know, it's, it's one of those things where the opportunity to really, to have a downtown facility that has those aspects in it. And it's really a cool design when you go back into that warehouse to see how it was designed. It's all like metal beams and it's gotta, you know, it's, it's, I guess it's empty. I'm trying to recall cuz it's been two, two and a half, three years since I've been there. But kind of an open center and you walk around and, and the barrels are up you know, to the, to the sides and just a really cool design and kind of a wow factor when you walk in and you see something like that cuz it's really unexpected.

Eric (00:15:37):
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's really you know, every step along that tour is just a new level of excitement and things you didn't expect. And they do it, you know, did, we did a really great job. And we also worked with a firm called Imagination on that to you know, create those, those moments of, of excitement. I think. I agree that one of the, the it was kind of contracting you, you sort of walk through that char tunnel of what it would, you know, almost feel like to be in a barrel. And then you open up into the, the back warehouse there and kind of work your way down and, you know, take in all the barrels that are literally under you, you know, left, left and right. You know, it's, it's, it's a great experience and there's really nothing, you know, like that anywhere. So it's, it's it's pretty cool.

Drew (00:16:28):
Well, and it's such a visual tour because as you go through the process, everything's written up on the walls as well for you to kind of understand what is the process here, what is the process here? And it makes me wonder, when you go in to do a project like that, how much of that, I mean, it really has to be a joint effort between the distillery saying, this needs to be functional, so we need to show you how this needs to be functional. And then there's the creative side of it and saying, Okay, how do we put this all together? What how do you go about your planning sessions to, to figure that out?

Eric (00:17:09):
Yeah, it's, I think it's something with our firm that, that's pretty unique because we are, so, a lot of people, it depends on the client. Some of us look at us, Oh, you only do the kind of pretty visitor stuff. And then some look at us, Oh, you're a production, You know, you do the production side, but in reality, we, we really do it, do it both. So it is something that you have to fully understand that process. You have to understand how much space those things take up. You have to know which pipe is going from where to where, and you know how to how that, that whole process works. There's nuances in, in all of it. I think the hardest part for anyone, you know, coming into our firm is learning that there's three different names for every piece of equipment in a distillery and figuring out, you know, what anyone's actually talking about. So and then every company you work with has different names for things too. So but yeah, that's, I think, something with us that's, that's pretty unique. We'll have clients come in and we, they don't really have to tell us a lot when it comes to a new distillery, essentially. You know, how much you're trying to make, what, how big is your column still? And, you know, usually we can get going.

Drew (00:18:21):
Yeah, they had the I don't know if they still do this or not but when I was there, I was there during opening week and they were rolling barrels out and down in a little elevator shaft and bringing them out front, loading them up on a flatbed truck and driving them around town. Do they still do that?

Eric (00:18:44):
Not as often, I don't think. But yeah, that was definitely a big part of the experience there was to you know, not only have that cooperage in there, but really create you know, a big event and, and take it out to the street, you know, bringing it down cuz that that barrel lift goes all the way through the building, you know, so you're, you're, you're constantly seeing it as you're doing the tour. And so there's, you know a nice, you know experience there on the street when they are bringing those barrels out. I would love for them to do it, you know, every day at like a certain time. But I think, you know, logistically covid, everything that happened you know, it's just not, not done quite as often.

Drew (00:19:27):
Yeah. Now with that building, you had a lot more control over trying to build up the interior and getting that all developed down the street. You had mic's Fort Nelson, which as I went in and did the tour, they showed us one side of the, the brick there where they had supports put in because this thing was apparently not a building that looked like it was a hundred percent ready to go once you guys took it over and started doing the the remodel on that thing. What, what, what, what's the story behind that and what, what was that building used for before?

Cash (00:20:12):
Yeah. That, you know, the city of Louis really owes mixers and the Magley Ogo family, a debt of gratitude there. Cause that was really, that is really one of the jewels of, it's a, it's a, it's a smaller building, but architecturally it's really pretty. It's a, it's a beautiful building. And so the, the Mix's had the project under contract, had the property under contract I was doing, we were doing our due diligence and we found that the, the building was leaning out into a street more than 20 inches at the top which, which brick is not supposed to do. It's <laugh> It really was one of, of those moments where we, where we, we all held our breath. And and, and, you know, to, to Mick's credit, they, they continued on with the project and, and said, We, we really, you know, really love this building and, and wanna save it and bring it back to life.

(00:21:03):
So they went to some, what I would say is, is heroics and in saving it. So we ended up putting braces out into eighth Street and shutting that street down for about a year keeping people out of it while we, while we built a, we essentially built a new steel and concrete structure inside those brick walls in there, essentially we, we got it out the middle and made it essentially a serial box and built that new structure inside and tied the, the brick to that new steel structure. So that it's, so we, you, you can't really push a building back back into plum. It just un unfortunately doesn't work that way. So we just, we, we kept it in place, put braces back to that steel structure and, and held that, that brick in place so that it is as, as one of, as our structural engineers said, if, if a hurricane or a or an earthquake happens, they wanna be in that building. Cuz it is, it is extremely stout now. So <laugh>. So there's, there's no concerns any longer there, but it's uhms like I said, mixers to their credit would went above and beyond to, to do something they, they didn't have to do. And, and it is turned out to be a fantastic building and, and heavily trafficked. There's lots of, lots of visitors in that area. They come to Mix's and, and hopefully enjoy it.

Drew (00:22:29):
Yeah, I, it's one of those that before it opened, I was snapping pictures of it going, Boy, I can't wait to see the inside of that and what it's all about. And again, the inside's very interesting because you kinda walk in, you get the, the gift shop area and you kind of get the browse around a little bit and you really don't know that you're inside of a distillery until you go past the wall and on the other side of the wall with these barrels on it all of a sudden, wow, you're in a, a distillery. And so was that again, something that was something that when the distillery says create something for us, do they, did they give the input for having that a wow moment? Or is that something that you guys come up with?

Cash (00:23:19):
Yeah, I mean, it's always a, it's always a team effort. And so that, you know, especially with the mixers, they're, they're very heavily involved and really have a great vision and idea of what they, what they wanted to accomplish there. And for them it was always about authenticity. So while they're, that is not, and then, and they make it well known, that's not their main production facility and they talk about their main production facility in the beginning of the of the tour there. They do produce there and, and they've, they've been doing that since we, since they opened about three or four years ago, whenever it was. And so for them, and it was a fun opportunity cause they were able to acquire the, the old mixers stills that, that had been previously operational under a different, when, when MITs was owned by a different a different entity years ago.

(00:24:10):
So we, they were able to bring that back and make those operational and work with Vedo to, to refurbish those stills. And, and they do produce there so I'll be, I'll be really excited and interested when, when they do release whatever it is they're gonna release from that, that facility. Cause that'll be and so that was, and that was the idea was to bring back, you know, give, give people a taste of, you know, where Mix started and, and how they, how they've evolved and, and tell the story of, of who they are today. So that was a lot of fun.

Drew (00:24:42):
Do you, do you have buildings that you look at when you're going down Whiskey Row knowing that there's really either, either there's something in there that probably could be better or that it's an empty space that you go, Boy, that'd be a really good spot for a distillery. Does your mind work that way?

Cash (00:25:00):
<Laugh>? Sure. Most, most Downtown is not you know, it is the labor of love to put a distillery in downtown. There is you know, these, these buildings are, so our grid is basically built with the street grid. It's essentially properties that are about 25, 20 to 25 feet wide and, you know, 150 to 200 feet deep. It's not exactly ideal for a distillery <laugh>. So it, it's hard to find one that's, that you would say is, is made for it. I would probably, probably the best example that would, it was a good fit was angels envy down the street. I mean, that that building was part of an old industrial complex and downtown that was a much, much larger complex that ha more than half was, was taken down when they built the expressway. And so what was left was, was a a small portion of industrial complex there. That one was probably the most, the, the best fit in terms of original architecture. Yeah. for a new distillery.

Drew (00:26:10):
Was that a building that Lincoln Henderson drew your attention to, or was that something that you kind of pointed out?

Cash (00:26:18):
No, actually they, yeah, they had that property before we, we got involved or had control of it at least. And brought us in to, to figure out if, if it would actually work on that one. They they essentially had half the property that they had today when originally and were, were trying to squeeze, you know, everything into it and, and un we had to, we had to have uncomfortable conversation of saying, You need, you need twice as much property to make this <laugh> make this work. And they, they eventually conceded and figured out a way to, to make that happen. Cuz because that one is you know, is their production facility. Yeah. and, and there's a lot of, lot of logistical issues with, with putting a, a full blown, you know, production facility of that quantity in downtown. So that, that was a, that that also had challenges but was, but was probably the best fit architecturally from the beginning.

Drew (00:27:15):
Probably helpful that it was a little bit away from the center of town, which you're getting, starting to sprawl out and get a little bit more space available to yourself.

Cash (00:27:23):
Exactly. Yeah.

Drew (00:27:25):
Let's talk about that building because it was, as I understand a a tool factory and an elevator factory at one point. And what I found interesting about that be beyond just the amazing design of the, the building inside is that you left some elements there behind that they point out while you're on the tour, like there's a a white beam with with rollers on it to kind of play back to what that building was before. Is that something that you try to consciously do, try to keep some history back in the building?

Cash (00:28:01):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was that was really a big driver on that project was how can we, how can we take what, what was here originally and what was, you know, really reference back to the history of, of its of the buildings history and, and bring that into the, the current, you know, Angels Envy brand. And so we really, we really worked at trying to get, bring that back to its, to its glory and reference as much as we could from the original, original structure and use.

Drew (00:28:29):
So I think what's shocking about it to me is that I would imagine, and you saw it when it was not refurbished it's hard after you've seen what it looks like now, imagining it as a, their LIC building that, you know, was just waiting for somebody to come into it. So when you look inside, you have, you take the elevator up and then all of a sudden you go into the production area and you have the two levels, but there is that basically hole in the middle that allows you from the top level to look down into what's going on below. Was it designed that way originally or did you create that hole?

Cash (00:29:10):
It, it's hard to say because when we, when we got it, there were literally trees growing out of the roof. I mean, you could see the sky that that project was, that building was you know, again, if angels hadn't come in and done it, no telling what it would, what would've happened to it because it was, it was so bad that we wouldn't let our our people walk in beyond the front door. Well, we literally took a drone and flew it through where we could on the upper floors because it was, it was so, so dangerous to walk around in there. And so there, there, the, the crane that you see that's there today was there so there was clearly some, some vertical movement going through that middle portion but the structure didn't, looks like it was always there in the middle. And then by the time we, we started working on it, the whole second floor had been sort of chopped up with offices and, and various different things. So there wasn't that big open space that you see today. So you know, whether it was originally a, a clear story with an opening, I don't think so, but it, but it, but it's possible. The pictures we've seen don't, don't indicate then,

Drew (00:30:24):
Then you've got your two story still in the front, which which is interesting because again, after having just traveled through Ireland, that nobody's really showing off their, their column stills because they're not always the most attractive thing. But in Kentucky, because they are so much a part of the process of making whiskey, they are designed to be a little bit more of a, of a showcase. So in, in this particular case, was it what, what brought about the determination of putting this front and center in the distillery? Yeah,

Cash (00:30:59):
I mean, I think on all these projects, I think most of the brands that we work with want to be authentic to, to what they're doing, you know, so I think, you know, Angels w wanted to, you know, that is, that's how they make their whiskey and people want authenticity when they come see, you know, nobody's interested in trying to pull off the, a big, a big farce, you know, and show something that's not real. And so Angels, you know, went to the best and found, you know, to Vindo and said, you know, and, and we all agree that that was gonna be front and center. Let's, let's make it beautiful and, you know, what can we, what can we spruce up, you know, on the, on the process to really make it something special that we can really show off. And Vedo, you know, of course stepped up as they always do. And it really gave us something to work with on, on the architecture side which is, which is fun.

Eric (00:31:52):
Those still are, they're, they're works of art. I mean, what Venn Don does is unmatched, you know anywhere here in the US and probably in the world. I mean, they're known worldwide for what they do. Those things are absolutely amazing. So it's, you know, it's your, your, your Rembrandt or whatever you, you put it in the, you know, the best spot in your house, right? So that's what we do with these stills and the, and, and, and unique, right? Everyone has a, a certain flare to 'em. So and that's the artistry that that Vedo has, you know, even down to the welds. Like they, you can compare, you know, something made by someone else to them. And, and the welding even is just on a different

Drew (00:32:35):
Level. Yeah. They're, they're one of those companies that's sooner or later I would, would love to go see their factory and how they put all their stills together. I've seen plenty of their stills on my travels and and so yeah, definitely would. And, and talking about their stills at another project that you guys worked on peerless, they have very tall stills in that building, and that was an old tobacco warehouse from what I understand. Were there any special issues in trying to to get that put into there?

Cash (00:33:11):
Oh, very. Yeah, there were, there was <laugh> that was an adventure that to to work with Vindo home to figure out how, cuz we had the existing structure that was there. And that fit didn't quite fit originally, you know, in, in the original schematics, in the original structure. Carson and, and Corky Taylor from, from Peerless worked really well with Vindo and worked really hard to to figure out, you know, what can they, what can they flex on the, on the, on the still side of things to fit in there. And then what can they flex on the, on the building side to make it work. So they, there's, if you look up closely at the top of that still there's some, some obvious rework of the, of the original structural members up there to, to make that work that they, we had to jump through some hoops to, to make happen.

Drew (00:33:57):
I think what's fun about all of those distilleries that we've talked about is they all have their own personalities to them. And I think Peerless shows that again, that we've gone from, you know, the Richard Sonian Romanesque architecture of, of Whiskey Row down from Old Forester down to a elevator warehouse with its own kind of feel. And now we've headed out to a tobacco warehouse, which has a much more rustic feel to it versus the other ones. And that you've designed these elements to just work right along with it. And I come from a web design background, so I sort of understand the design theory and trying to get yourself in the mindset, but do you have different designers who you call upon basically when you're doing these projects, who might have more experience in one design style versus another?

Eric (00:34:53):
I think we work really collaborate a lot, you know, that that's, we don't really care where the great ideas come from. So especially in the beginning of a lot of projects, we, we get a lot of eyes on it. We have a lot of really phenomenal architects and designers here in the office. And we're really good about collaborating and, you know, not having egos. It's not a top down. The building needs to look like this kind of thing. The ideas, it's just one of those things I think we've learned to you know, be able to identify when that good idea comes out and then, and then grow on it. And then, you know, you use the, the leverage of your, your extremely talented staff that we have here. And, and you, you come up with a great idea. Now, obviously along the way you're bringing the owner into it and you, that's why I think, you know, each of our projects is very unique. Every owner is different, every owner has different goals. And I think, you know, that's what we try to bring into our, into our building. So if you look at our portfolio, there's no, you know, design aesthetic that's, that's necessarily carried across all the projects. They're all independent and, and part of that process and, and based on, you know, what the owner's needs are,

Drew (00:36:11):
I think that's well demonstrated when you look at a distillery like Bardstown Bourbon Company because now you have space to work with, you can build it, however, you know, you don't less in terms of property constraints and a much more modern feel to that distillery. And and it's one of those where we're also talking about mass production. And when I think about, you know, these guys are doing distilling for so many different brands, and I'm sure that that was in their mindset when they were having this designed out, but they still wanted a visitor's experience. And so there's an elegant side to it. There's the restaurant that's in there, which is great, and then your production is over there on the other side. So what was what, what was kind of the experience of moving from working in the confined spaces of Louisville to all of a sudden now being out and building more industrial size without necessarily giving it too much of an industrial look? Because it really doesn't have that kind of a cold, stale look that we sometimes expect from industrial level buildings.

Cash (00:37:28):
Yeah, that was a, that was a fun one cuz it, from the, from the beginning, you know, Baram Bourbon didn't have a story. Yeah. And they, and they made that clear to us. They said, We're, you know, we are not a historic brand. We are, we're not gonna pretend to be a historic brand. And so they really tasked us really from the beginning. They said, you know, what would a modern Kentucky distillery look like today? If it, if it started from scratch like they were doing. And, you know, that one really came also was interesting looking back on it now, was we were also in the midst of working on Four Roses at the time in the, in the office. And were were not struggling, but working through the challenges of adding on a major addition there. And so the, the concept and, and that was what Bar Sound Bourbon said, they, you know, they really wanted to plan for the future, but but not build it all out today.

(00:38:26):
And so that whole structure was, was built to add onto, maybe not to the extent that they've actually done today, but they <laugh> that, I don't know, know that anybody really knew that that all was coming. But the, the whole design was, was built around, you know, essentially the expansion of the different pieces and parts of distillery so that you could add onto it in the future. But they, and then, and then the other kind of core value they had there was, you know, the transparency and being involving, you know, not, not only you know, consumers, but, but everyone who comes to the facility in the true how they truly distill. And so the transparency of what they do and letting people see and be close in with the, with the process as best you can was, was really one another one of the goals. So that was, that was a fun project.

Drew (00:39:22):
That's one of the things that really strikes you about it is that from wherever you're at within the building, you're looking out and you can see everything around you giving you that same impression that everybody on the outside gets that same view into seeing what's going on in that distillery.

Cash (00:39:39):
Well, good, good, because that, yeah, that was the idea was to, you know, to involve as many people as into the, into the, you know, the Baram Bergen, you know, family and, and, and, and be as transparent and clear and concise on what they do, you know, there so they're, they're from the beginning, like, like many, they, they wanted to be as authentic as they could to, to themselves and their process.

Drew (00:40:02):
What's interesting about that distillery is that versus all the other ones we've talked about, this is the first one where we're getting into publicly facing warehouses. And so what is your what was your kind of design philosophy behind the, the warehouses? Now, of course, a neighbor of Bardstown Bourbon Company we can think back to Heaven Hill and the great fire that happened there, and, you know, the idea that now we have to look at warehouses and a different way than they did, you know, 50 years ago, 60 years ago when they were putting these things all on top of each other and, and that sort of thing. What was that experience like? And what kind of considerations do you have to take into account in building those warehouses? You

Cash (00:40:49):
Wanna take that

Eric (00:40:50):
Here. So there is, you know a section in, in the Kentucky code that allows these warehouses to be built. I think prior to the Heaven Hill fire the, the, the big piece that was missing is the containment, which if, if a warehouse catches on fire, there's not a lot of chances that you're gonna stop it from burning. But what you need to stop is to stop it from burning everything else down. So if you go to, to any new new warehouse build, there are not, not that big, but slight berms that can contain the the alcohol and, and prevent it from essentially creating a, a river of, of fire that flows downhill and burns whatever's in its path. So I think bars, town bourbon is, is a good example of, of that, you know, there is a, technically if it's a sprinkler warehouse, it can be a hundred feet to the, to the next structure.

(00:41:49):
But no one's doing that. Even, even though that's allowed, it's usually like 150 to 200 feet which is what you see there at Bars Town Bourbon. So they're, they do bring them to the front. They're right out outside there. The, the latest all Glass End Rickhouse that we did, there seems to be getting a lot of recognition at it. It travels on social media very well and it's an amazing experience to go in there. So I think it's just sort of like we've seen, you know, in the industry another area that that's growing. You know, you used to just go see the distillery and not many people got you in a warehouse. Well, the warehouses are, are where the magic happens, you know, so getting people into those and, and doing tastings, and you do have to be careful on what you're allowed to do code-wise. And, and I think we, we slightly stretch some of that stuff as much as we can, but it's an amazing experience in those things. And, and people love to, to see it and, and, and the quantities, right? The you know compared to, you know, wine or, or scotch or whatever, you know, the, the just vastness of a 30,000 to 50,000 barrel warehouses, <laugh> is an amazing thing to take in.

Drew (00:43:09):
Yeah. Well, and I asked this question, and now I know I've since bumped into distilleries that that use steel frames inside of those distilleries, but most of them are still being built with wood. In fact, I think the ones that Bart Sound Bourbon Company are

Eric (00:43:27):
Yes. Yeah. Yep. It's, it's true and true. They've been doing it for a very long time, so there's no reason to change it as long as they're, you know, taken care of and maintained. There's no reason they can't last for a very, very long time.

Drew (00:43:44):
I think what's interesting is that the rest of the world seems to be moving towards palletized warehouses, which just don't have the same romantic character to them as walking in. I mean I've been in the Scottish Danish dunnage warehouses, which are only, you know, three barrels high, and the, there's a, there's a mystique about those that the seven story ones don't really carry, but yet the seven story ones carry a mystique that definitely the palletized warehouses don't carry. Are you finding, again, would that be a decision that would probably be made as to whether the distillery was public facing or whether it was these warehouses were just for storage that you might design them and and are you actually in necessarily on the design of warehouses that aren't public facing?

Cash (00:44:36):
Right. So, you know, that's really comes down to a brand decision. And if you ask, you know, if you ask 10 distillers what their preference of, if they think that a palletized warehouse is as good as a Rick warehouse, you're gonna get, you know, 11 answers. And so there's lots of varying, you know, degrees of, of acceptability within brands and, and, you know, folklore, whether it's just tradition or whether it's actual truth or not you know, we really leave that up to, to the brand to tell us what their, what their core values are. And then we, we like to, we, we execute those you know, for, for those projects. And so we get involved, you know, there's a lot you know, music construction is by far the leader in, in Rick Warehouse design. You know, so most of their, you know, their projects, you know, they've, they've really continued to evolve those designs and, and, you know, make tweaks and make them better and better, you know, so for, for on, you know, for projects that they're doing, we, we typically don't need to be involved if it's not visitor facing.

(00:45:43):
But then we, and then we, we pull, you know, then we become part of the team on the visitor, you know, or the visitor side of things, whether it's just from the outside or whether it's, you know, in internal to the warehouse. So we partner up with them and, and then we have several other clients that are, that are doing non-traditional, you know, warehouses that we have designed. So we've done a number for mixers that are that are different. And then a few and some other clients Pepper James Z Pepper we're doing, we did a warehouse for them recently. So there's, there's lots of different ways to, to execute a warehouse.

Drew (00:46:20):
I'm taking it, their, their warehouse at James Z Pepper is not in the Lexington Distillery District.

Cash (00:46:27):
Right. So it's, Yeah, their, their warehouse is in Midway.

Drew (00:46:31):
Okay. Okay. Let's since you brought it up, let's talk about that, cuz it's another one of my favorite distilleries and one that has an industrial kind of look to it, because that's the way it was originally built. How much of that project of the Lexington Distillery District did you take part in? Were you just working on that one building or did you kind of have a say in what was going on around the whole complex?

Cash (00:46:55):
No, we just worked with James Z Pepper on that, that complex. So that was you know, he was one of, there was a number of tenants in the other spaces prior to him starting there. And so we, but there, there were a number of, there were vacants, so we had to work with, you know, we worked with the rest of the, you know, the, the developer there to sort of help figure out the, the logistics and code requirements for being adjacent to a, a distillery, a functioning distillery there. But the rest of the spaces we, we didn't do the architectural work on, on the rest of, of the spaces is there.

Drew (00:47:30):
Okay. Well, even the pizza place, would that have been a, a part of it as well? Because part of the boiler, I think is in the, in the pizza place.

Cash (00:47:38):
No, it was really Yeah, ex that's exactly right. So that whole complex, so that, that, again, that's another, you know, cool, cool full circle story with, you know, that being the original James e Pepper distillery and then him bringing that back to the, you know, that brand back to a piece of it at least. So unfortunately, no, we didn't do the, the pizza place, but that was really, it was really cool to see them reuse a lot of the, what, what minor pieces were left over from the original distillery there. It's really a great, great space.

Drew (00:48:06):
So then another place that we've wandered past and we'll come back to is Lux Rowe, which is a beautiful, beautiful distillery. But the thing that I think of when I remember that distillery is the drive in because it, it's just you're, you feel like you're out in the country. You're not that far from Barts town bourbon company right down the road and not far from Bardstown proper, but it just feels like you like it's, there was a purpose behind that long drive in to give you a feel like you are out in the country.

Cash (00:48:42):
Yeah. That was you know that was really the selling point of that property, if you want know the truth. We, we had, we, we were lucky enough to be involved with with Don Luxe and, and David Bratcher there for, while they were looking for properties. And so we helped them search out several, you know, evaluate several properties. And since they've already closed on the property, I'll tell you, we, we drove onto that property and the whole team turned to each other and said, We, this is it. We need to buy this. And they continue to look at other properties and, and evaluate, but they, I think they were all sold when they saw that drive in, and we and they ran with it, and they should have, It was, it's fantastic.

Drew (00:49:20):
Well, what was that house that's in front? As I understand they've talked about using it for event spaces or stuff like that, but that's a historic home, is it not?

Cash (00:49:28):
It is, it's one of the, you know, one of the oldest homes in, in Kentucky is the history there. So that, that was a, when they purchased it, that was someone's home. They were living there. It's been obviously renovated over the years. Okay.

Cash (00:49:41):
And a few additions have been put onto it from, from the original, original structure and so now it really functions as a, as a as an office space and, and sort of a v i p entrance and and tasting area before they go into the, into the main distillery there. So, so we really, we, and we really enjoyed playing off that history of the, that treeline drive in and the historic home. And and with the new distillery really made an effort to, you know, move that towards back of the house, back away from the original structure there, almost as if it was a, a barn, a modern interpretation of a barn structure behind the original house.

Drew (00:50:24):
It is really nice how it fits in design wise with all that's around it. In fact it is the picture on the front of my book, <laugh>. Oh,

Cash (00:50:37):
Fantastic. Yes.

Drew (00:50:38):
That's a, that's how much I love that that view of that distillery. So I've just well manicured in a, a beautiful look. And like I say, just again, kind of going for a little bit of a rustic feel in terms of the the outer look of it, but yet still a modern structure and and so it gives off some of a little of the modern, a little bit of that, that rustic feel as well. Good,

Cash (00:51:02):
Good. Well, that then, that was exactly the intent. Yeah, there was and that was, and that, you know, that it's a little bit of a different a little bit different when you're, when you're designing for not necessarily one brand, it or it's a family Lux row, there is a, you know, obviously a family of, of brands and, and their intention was not to, to tie it to one individual brand. So it's a little bit it's a little bit different designing for, for one particular brand that you can brand off of as opposed to a family of brands. So those, that was interesting.

Drew (00:51:38):
Well, and then you've got some other projects too, one that I haven't again seen, I heard about it the last time I was in Claremont, but apparently you guys have been the ones working on the little craft distillery that they put together there, the Fred Bau Craft Distillery. And they didn't have a lot of detail about what that was gonna be, but I know they were doing a full scale renovation through there, and that, when I go back, it's gonna look a lot different from the way it looked the last time I was there. Talk about that project and were you were you involved in any of the other parts of the upgrade of the, of the property or the experience as well as that craft distillery?

Eric (00:52:21):
Yeah, there was a lot of projects that, that have gone on there. We were mainly focused on the distillery. We've done other work, you know, in, in the the main factory there. But the main focus was on, you know, they say little craft distillery, but it's a, it's a 24 inch column still. It's Oh, okay. For Jim Beam. It's little, but that's nice. It's not a, not a small facility by, by any the imagination. It's okay. Over, over 20,000 square feet of, of <laugh> a bourbon making machine. And it, it was really a really cool experience to work on that because it was sort of a catalyst, I guess, for what the rest of the design and the rework of the whole campus was gonna feel like. So it, it does pay homage to the, the distillery that's been there for, you know, over 200 years and, and sort of the barn form that, that always sort of dominated the look of these things in the past, but it is absolutely super modern in its execution.

(00:53:29):
So that was kind of our our goal in the design. You know, we had, we went all kinds of designs, you know before we, before we settled on that, and that was one of those aha moments. There's a guy in our office, John, who, who came up with this quick little sketch render, and the minute we saw it, we said, Oh, no, that's, that's it. Mm. and so we, we, we pushed that one forward, you know, usually we come with some options, but not this time. We said, This is it. And didn't really know how that was gonna go for us, but we put it up on screen and I think one of the things in the room was, that was said was, Well, if it looks like that we're building it mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So that was a good start.

(00:54:13):
And then it just progressed like as, as that project got designed, you know, there's a lot of innovation, a lot of really knowledgeable engineering and, and process, you know, and, and with the Sun Tori influence there that went into that. So it, it is a super, super modern facility. Mm. you know, the, the, some very unique pieces to that with making the yeast, which is a room, as you approach the distillery, it's kind of this all white box, almost like Willy Wonka factory, that it's this super modern room that, that they create the, the yeast in. And it's the same strand of yeast from, from the beginning. And, and so they had a really rudimentary process previously for how that was being done. So we essentially been working with you know, a lot of the process designers invented that, that room and that, and that that process. So that was, you know, just one of dozens and, and dozens of, of of things that were done at that facility that are, that are really state

Drew (00:55:26):
Of the art. So you've gone from being an architect to being a scientist, it sounds like <laugh>.

Eric (00:55:33):
We, I don't know how much of it we actually know. We know what pieces need to move where and and then execute the building to accommodate that. But you know, it, it, again, it's, it's very collaborative. We, you know, both internally here at our office, but with you know, Buse did the work on that, on that job as well. And, and, and the process designers who, who, you know, contributed just as much to how that thing looks as, as we do, you know, we, the process is a beautiful thing and that's what we've discovered. So it's our job to create a building that shows that off and, and functions mostly, but is, is a great experience for, for the visitors. So I think that one was, was one that we were pretty happy with when we finished.

Drew (00:56:22):
I'm gonna laugh at myself for my little comment, I'm sure when I show up and see what this thing looks like, cuz I, I, when I went through it the last time and I was told that it was coming, we were walking through the old way through where there was a craft distillery, but it was, I mean, it wasn't really impressive. It was just kind of there. And I remember my guide actually, I got there on a January morning and I was the only one on the tour. So he said, Well, if you've been here before, I'll take you to see some stuff you haven't normally seen. And he went over and he pulled the juga yeast out of a refrigerator. So I'm, I'm, I'm guessing now that it's a bit more technical than that. <Laugh>. Yes. It's expanded a bit. That's

Eric (00:57:08):
Right. Right. And that's a great story there cuz they, they started the, the, the institute there that's now at the University of Kentucky, that James b Beam Institute. And that little still, which was a much smaller still was actually, is actually being reused. And we're building this facility up at up in Lexington on the UK campus. So it's amazing how, you know, it's just another piece of sort of the, the, the whiskey lore, if you will, of, of how these pieces of equipment, you know, move around and, and the history behind it all. It's, it's really it's really something to be, to be a part

Drew (00:57:45):
Of. You get bonus points for calling out the name of the show. By the way, <laugh>

Cash (00:57:49):
<Laugh>,

Drew (00:57:50):
Good

Cash (00:57:51):
Work out there might be

Drew (00:57:52):
Good. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. one of the ones, the, one of the distilleries that you've done is what I like to call the sort of the Cracker Barrel of distilleries. That's the Jeff the Creed, cuz it's right as you're driving along the side of the road, you can stop off and go in. It's got a nice little gift area. It's got a restaurant area to go into. But what you don't get a Cracker Barrel is you don't get an entertainment venue. So that's kind of a nice little spin on that distillery. So and has that, has that developed out? It was it was basically out on the back porch it seemed like. And I read amphitheater, so I wasn't sure whether there had been more development out there since the last time I I went

Cash (00:58:40):
Yeah, that one. You know, they are they are really knocking it out of the park. Both, you know, on the, on the visitors side of things as well as the whiskey side. You know, they really, you know, for being a small production facility, they really have some really unique and innovative ideas on the distillery side that they're putting out product on. It's really really quite impressive. But they yeah, on the, you know, that facility is really, has a lot of emphasis I'd say towards visitor traffic and, and event space. There so they, they do have, they have, they have a, they've extended their back porch space there, so it's more than just a porch. It's really a, a sort of a ha an open air roofed area on the back. And then, and then there's a then there's a stage across the lawn so they can really extend that all the way out the back of their facility.

(00:59:32):
And I've, and I've heard out in Shelbyville, that is the ticket, those are the tickets to have. They are high doming. We were there the other day at the facility and, and they were saying they're sold out, you know, through, through the middle of August. I think they're, you know, they have on Saturdays I believe. And so if you're, yeah, if you're, if you're in Shelbyville on the weekend, that is the place to be. And they're, and they're great folks. They're they, and they've really, they've really grown a great brand out of, out of, out of their own, you know, ingenuity there. So it's, it's been great to see 'em grow.

Drew (01:00:04):
It's just shocking to me that I think I mean I've been to Kentucky a couple of times over the last year and a half, but not as much as I was during the stretch right before the pandemic and just immediately after the pandemic. And we're talking about these distilleries that I went to visit just a couple years ago, it seems that I feel like the whole landscape of Kentucky is is blowing up and I need to go see cuz everything is changing, adjusting more is growing in. I mean, how are you working right now on any distillery projects? I know you said the institute, but are there some more some more I'm gonna need to throw on my list sometime soon.

Cash (01:00:46):
<Laugh>, we've got, we've got things say coming down the pike. One of the big, one of the, one of the biggest ones that's already announced is the of course the Heaven Hill distillery. That's, that's it was announced I guess it was announced probably six, six months ago or so. And it'll be, you know, is underway with construction down in Bargetown. So that's probably the biggest, you size wise by far is the largest one that we're working on. Yeah. and then there's a lot of other exciting stuff that's, that's out there. There's there's, so we're, you know, not so much that we can talk about, but we really, we really

Drew (01:01:22):
Trying

Cash (01:01:22):
Try to try to honor our NDAs and, and our relationships with our clients. So we, we can't have to be careful what we say. So

Drew (01:01:29):
I I I hear you. It's one of those things when I ask the question, I'm kinda like should I ask this question or not? Cuz I know the modern world, we have to be careful about how much information we, we divulge. But is there anything I missed in terms of, cuz we, we talked a little bit before that maybe there were some other projects you that you have completed that maybe I've missed. I know Mix's you actually did an a their shively plant as well, which isn't really a customer facing distillery.

Cash (01:02:02):
Yeah, exactly. So that, yeah, that we did, we, we continued to do work there and, and, and did it, you know, originally that one's a that and, and they give you some glimpses of that on their, on their, you know, consumer facing tour at Fort Nelson. You know, and their warehouses, they have warehouses out in, in Springfield. So they've, yeah, they've got a lot of they're always innovating and growing and, and doing some really interesting things and putting out a, a great product. But yeah, so we did, we did the facility out in Childly that's, it's you know, more less less public facing I guess you'd say.

Drew (01:02:36):
Yeah. I guess that gives you a little bit a little bit more comfort in taking out the visitor experience part of it. And it can be more about how do we just make this good utility for the business?

Cash (01:02:51):
Well, you know, it, you know, we've, we joke about this a lot in, in house and, and we'll, during those scene we tell our clients this too, no matter what they tell us we're gonna plan for some sort of tour to go through these facilities, <laugh>. They may not be selling tickets but they're always gonna be bringing, we, we, we've, we've learned from experience, there will be a group of, you know, 10 people, whether they're, you know, bartenders or distributors or investors or whoever that's gonna want to see this thing. And whether they're, you know, whether it's on the bourbon trail or not we're gonna plan for a group of people to stand in front of a fermenter and in front of the still and, you know, and have a little discussion about, you know, what's what it is cuz cause the production side of things is so captivating and fun to see that, you know, everybody loves to see this stuff and it, and it's, you can't, you can't get away from it, you know, in, in the end. And so it's, we're, we're gonna build it in whether they tell us to or not, or <laugh>. So.

Drew (01:03:51):
Very nice. Do you work outside of Kentucky or are you basically just focus on Kentucky?

Cash (01:03:56):
We do. So we've, we've, we've worked around, you know, all the way from California to DC and, and even consulted on, on a couple out in, in Ireland and Scotland. You know, really don't on those projects. I actually one in Japan that we're, we're, you know, consulting on. But it's you know, we really primarily, you know, it's Kentucky is growing so fast and, and we're right here in the middle of it. So that's obviously the bulk of our, of our portfolio, but we, no, we do travel and, and we're, you know, it's, it's fun to go see other parts of the world and see other parts of the country and how they do things and what kind of neat ideas they come up with, you know, from their climate. You know, the, the Colorado projects, you know, you in Kentucky, you know, we have plenty of humidity and plenty of hot weather. And, and you know, you go to Colorado and you have to think about things like low humidity and evaporation of, of, in the aging. So you have to introduce, you know, in their bare warehouse, you have to introduce humidity into the space in the winter. You know, so it's, it's just, it's interesting to sort of see how that other people evolve to their own climate.

Drew (01:05:06):
Yeah, it's fascinating. There was a distillery in Nevada that I went to that they had two warehouses, one called Kentucky, one called Scotland, and they had them temperature and humidity control to the moment for Space Eye Scotland and for Bardstown Kentucky, which I thought was fascinating, but it got into this whole discussion of, yeah, but is that, you know, are you being faithful to where the whiskey is coming from and all of that sort of thing. But I mean, I think back in back when they were maturing whiskey in the 19 hundreds and early 20th century, if they could have found a way to improve the process through some out outer means, they would've probably chosen to do so.

Cash (01:05:51):
That's exactly right. That's an, that's an interesting discussion though. That's a, that's that's great. Yeah. And I've never heard, I haven't heard about

Eric (01:05:57):
That. Well, when you, when you travel, so like cash mentioned Colorado, or we were down in Austin, Texas for a conference, you, you begin to learn and understand why bourbon is made in Kentucky. It, it

Drew (01:06:11):
<Laugh> it's,

Eric (01:06:11):
It's very much cause of the, the climate and the water. It's not just a story like there that is, that is you know, in same with scotch, you know. So luckily for us, we're right here in the epicenter of it and we don't have to, we have a great history and we don't have to travel too far to, to work on some amazing facilities.

Drew (01:06:31):
So if there are some cuz I have actually a lot of distillers listen to this show. So if you if somebody's thinking, you know what, we need a upgrade to our to, to our distillery how was the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Eric (01:06:50):
Our website we have a submission process. Those, those submissions come directly to cash and I so you can just do it that way. You can give us a call you know, and either one of those would work. So just drop us a line, tell us what, what you're doing, what you, what you want to do and, and we'll, we'll be

Drew (01:07:10):
In touch. Fantastic. Well, I thank you guys for for joining me. Like I say, this is a, this is a part of the whiskey business that really doesn't get talked about that much, but it's so important because it really is how your whiskey's being taken care of and the experience you have with your whiskey. And now that whiskey tourism has become a major part of the whiskey industry, I think that just makes it even that more critical to the experience that somebody has when they interact with one of their favorite brands. So I appreciate you taking the time and talking through the history and what you guys are doing right now.

Eric (01:07:48):
Yeah, no problem. Thank you.

Cash (01:07:49):
Well, great. We appreciate it. So it's a fun industry. We, we really, yeah. Really love, love working on it. So appreciate your time.

Drew (01:07:56):
And if you'd like show notes from this episode along with transcripts, you can head to whiskey lore.com and look for episode number 77. You also find links to my YouTube tastings and other social media channels, so you can see all my travels across Ireland and the history of Irish whiskey continues next Monday. Over on Whiskey Lore stories, we've passed the 17th century and they're almost up to the point where they call the spirit whiskey. And we're gonna learn a little bit more about a malt tax that created two whiskey empires. And I'm gonna finish up my tour of Beyond Distillery and come face to face with a 140 year old bottle of whiskey. That's it. Whiskey lore, stories, wherever you get your favorite podcasts. I'm your host, Drew Hesh. Thanks for listening. And until next time, cheers. And Lan of a Whiskey lores, a production of Travel Fuel's Life, llc.