Ep. 112 - Counting Down Kentucky's Top 10 Historic Whiskey Brands

Transcript

Drew Hannush (00:02.385)
Welcome to Whiskey Lore, the interviews. I'm your host, Drew Hanisch, the Amazon bestselling author of Whiskey Lore's travel guide to experiencing Irish whiskey and experiencing Kentucky bourbon, and also the author of the brand new book, the lost history of Tennessee whiskey. And today I have the honor of having a repeat guest, which is something that I don't know has happened very often on the podcast, but Jerry Daniels is here, my friend from Kentucky who takes people around on tours of

all of the great distilleries in that state and who tells a lot of history as he's rolling along and introduced, introducing people into the world of Kentucky bourbon. And so Jerry, welcome to the show.

Jerry Daniels (00:44.546)
Thanks Drew, I mean it's great to be back. I kind of grow on people kind of like distiller's mode. So thanks for having me back.

Drew Hannush (00:51.27)
Yeah, it's nice. Yes. Well, you, you are the reason that we are here because you came up with an idea and texted it to me and said, Hey, we should do such and such. And I thought, because the last time you were on, we counted down each of our own independent lists of our top 10 favorite distillery tours in Kentucky, which was a lot of fun, but our, our collections matched up pretty.

Jerry Daniels (01:19.446)
Very quickly, yes.

Drew Hannush (01:19.713)
I don't remember if our number ones were the same, but we were, I think we like swapped ones and twos or something like that. But yeah, most

Jerry Daniels (01:24.63)
We did. We did. We did. Yeah. I thought, did I have Katherine P.? Is that what I had as number one or something? Yeah.

Drew Hannush (01:29.653)
I think you had Castle & Key and, uh, and I had old, old Forester, I believe. Yeah. So, yes, today though, we are shifting gears and we are going to be talking about historic brands and which of the, uh, counting down the top 10 independent list. I don't know what Jerry's got on his list. He doesn't know what I got on my list. We may have some guesses as to which ones are our favorites, but we're going to go through these and see.

Jerry Daniels (01:34.322)
Yeah, yeah, very close.

Drew Hannush (01:59.301)
what his top 10 list is and what my top 10 list is of the favorite Kentucky whiskeys of our own personal opinion. Um, and I do have to say this was a tough list to come up with. And I kept moving things around because whenever you're trying to think of what the best is, it's like, you have to go through and think of all the criteria that you're judging it by. Is it because I like the, the labeling?

Is it because the icon that's associated with it, people who are associated with it, quirky things that happened in their history or an amalgamation of all of it. And so that was kind of where I came from in terms of doing my list. And I wanted to keep all of them as existing brands that were present before World War II. They could have disappeared, but they, they are.

basically coming back in a similar shape to the way they were prior to World War Two. So how did you work this out, Jerry?

Jerry Daniels (03:01.91)
It was tough for me. I mean, you're talking about narrowing down the 10. I had a lot of, you know, I probably had 20 or more. I mean, I was going back and kind of looking at and trying to figure out how's we're narrowed down. You know, these are not what's our favorite one to drink. Believe me, there's a couple on here that on my list that would not be my first preference of bourbon, the drink today. Oh, the brands. Uh, so it was, I don't know, being in, you know, in central Kentucky, probably a lot, you know,

draws me to a lot of these brands that were here in central Kentucky. But I've tried to widen my vision to all over the state and include, you know, ones all over the state, cause there's history. And when you talk about here, you know, we're in around central Kentucky. So there's a lot of history here in Lexington and, you know, Woodford County and Lawrenceburg, but there's also a lot of history when you go to Louisville or Bardstown or Owensboro. Uh, so, I mean, just trying to figure out. I've tried to get a little bit.

of each area as best I could. But there's some that tugged at my heartstrings too. There's a couple here, at least one, I know that kind of tugged at my heartstrings because I kind of know the whole story about it and the people behind it. So that's probably a giveaway to you all.

Drew Hannush (04:17.058)
Well, yeah, it was tough for me too. And originally I had suggested that maybe we even go outside of Kentucky and I picked some brands from outside of Kentucky. Um, that would have made for a really, a much tougher list because again, I'm done all this research into the history of Tennessee whiskey. And so I have some brands there that I'm kind of a fond of, and then we could go to Pennsylvania. We can go to.

Uh, um, well, I mean, those are probably Maryland. Um, you know, and those are probably primarily where the names are going to come from. But I decided on mine and I don't think you're going to be doing this, but, uh, I want to take a pause every couple of choices and go in and tell what my number two and my number one favorites from out of state are. And then I'm also going to open this up and I think you're going to give a suggestion here too.

of ones that we, of one that we wish would come back that is gone. It was pre-world war two in my case, or by your criteria for you that disappeared and you would love to see somebody snag that name and bring it back with a, a new whiskey. So let us get w we got lots. We got lots to kick, kick off through here. So, uh,

Jerry Daniels (05:32.866)
Yes, yes. I think we're good. You're right ahead.

And I even got some weed rams of a couple of mine, so very small pores. Yes, I've got just a few of small pores. That's one of my favorites here. You too, I see. That's it.

Drew Hannush (05:43.666)
Do you? Okay, I...

M-M-M-

Yeah. My, I have bottles back there. Now they aren't necessarily on my list. They might be, they might not be, but I also did, uh, bring myself a poor of my number one. So, uh, yes. So eager anticipate. Can you tell what my number one is by looking at the glass? Okay. All right. Very good.

Jerry Daniels (06:02.898)
OK. Awesome.

Jerry Daniels (06:10.99)
Not without smell. I mean, if you get some way you can send the smell through maybe.

Drew Hannush (06:19.357)
All right, so I'm gonna start off by letting you give us your number 10.

Jerry Daniels (06:23.842)
Okay, so number 10, like I said, I wanted to go all over the state. So my number 10, I went out west. It's funny, I was started by an actual IRS agent in the 1890s. He was J.W. McCullough. Um, he introduced, uh, started a distillery and introduced a brand in the 1890s called. It's got a very unusual bottle style. One horse to you. I'm sure you got one too.

Drew Hannush (06:35.197)
Eh?

Drew Hannush (06:54.108)
Yep. I got one right here. Mr. Green.

Jerry Daniels (06:55.358)
Yeah, this is a single barrel. This is actually what's in my first pour right here. I mean, yes, Green River and it's had a little bit of a complicated history. I've started it 1890s, come up with the brand, but I think it's funny that he was a former IRS tax agent. So, you know, he went from collecting taxes to paying taxes. They won a lot of awards from the 1890s to the 1900s, tons of, you know.

Drew Hannush (07:00.745)
Green River.

Jerry Daniels (07:23.798)
Which today, there's a lot of awards out there. A lot of distilleries won a lot of awards, but back then I think it might've been a little harder to win some of these awards. So, it won a lot of awards. It ran up to right before Prohibition, and then it had their warehouses, like a lot of distilleries back in the day. Lost some warehouses due to fire. Lost quite a few of their warehouses right before Prohibition. During Prohibition, it was forced out of business.

And then picked up, which I thought this was kind of odd when I found this, picked up by Old Town Distilling Company. I've never heard of that. Have you ever heard of that? Yeah, Old Town Distilling Company. And it was produced by the Limestone Springs Distillery in Chapisi, Kentucky for a while. So that was their prohibition. And then eventually purchased by Shinley, like every distillery,

Drew Hannush (08:00.905)
Mm-mm. I haven't, no.

Drew Hannush (08:18.485)
Ha ha.

Jerry Daniels (08:21.098)
And it became a blended whiskey. So, uh, which, you know, when you're talking about the 1940s, 50s, there were a lot of great brands that became blended with his during that time, but they didn't stick with it. They eventually just phased it out. So by the 1960s, it was gone. Uh, and then, uh, you know, eventually brought back by a distillery that went through a few different names during the time, I think it was the Bentley distillery.

Drew Hannush (08:41.118)
Mm-mm.

Jerry Daniels (08:51.422)
one time and then we became known as OZ Tyler, which won't say anything about that bourbon. And today is Green River Distillery. That name came about in 2020 and was recently purchased by Barstown Bourbon Company. So it was their sister distillery to Barstown Bourbon Company. And then they come out with their product, they have.

Drew Hannush (09:01.045)
Ha ha ha.

Drew Hannush (09:15.285)
Uh...

Jerry Daniels (09:19.554)
This brand, you know, this is a single barrel I've got here. They just released a rye which I actually just picked up a couple of days ago. That's their first thing, but make a good product. I love the bottle. I mean, you're in Kentucky. Better bottle shape than a horseshoe. So I think it's, you know, a distillery that started by a former tax agent. Uh, the brand was, and you know, went away and has been brought back. And it's Owensboro.

Drew Hannush (09:32.177)
Yeah, it's gorgeous.

Yeah.

Jerry Daniels (09:49.834)
A lot of history there. I mean the Medleys, all that family out there. So there's a lot of history out there. You know, Glean Moors out there, one of those interact distilleries today. So I wanted to give a little homage to, you know, Owensburg was my first one. Number two, so Green River.

Drew Hannush (10:10.417)
You're going to find this very interesting. I actually was looking over my list because I made this list a week ago. And as I was going through it, I was going, wait, where did I put green river because I remember looking up green river and then going, and it was supposed to be on my list, but somehow it did not get put on my list. So, uh, it is definitely one that I would put down as my honorable mention, but do you remember what their slogan was?

Jerry Daniels (10:16.549)
Hmm?

Drew Hannush (10:39.005)
back in the 19th. Yes.

Jerry Daniels (10:39.038)
Yes, before pro-business it was whiskey without a headache.

Drew Hannush (10:45.211)
Yes, nice medical health claims were still okay back in that time period. Yes.

Jerry Daniels (10:48.35)
Yeah, yeah, back then. Yeah, but then when it wasn't, they changed it to whiskey without regrets.

Drew Hannush (10:56.313)
Yes. Now what's interesting is that there is, if you look at the old bottle, cause I actually have a 1910 bottle that's half full, it's a half pint. Um, there's a, what's that?

Jerry Daniels (10:57.614)
the

Jerry Daniels (11:05.239)
Mm-hmm.

I think I know where you got that from. I said, I think I know where you got that from.

Drew Hannush (11:13.181)
I got that from California. Yeah, so it's an interesting photo that they have on there because when I was out in California, they handed me the bottle and they said, well, we don't know, it's kind of a questionable label here. It's a black man who is pulling bottles out of a saddle bag. And it was actually described as there was a story behind it where...

Jerry Daniels (11:15.315)
Aren't ya? Yes.

Drew Hannush (11:42.365)
this gentleman was in the tavern with the owner of Green River and they had run out of whiskey. And so he ran back to the distillery to load up some whiskey to bring it back. So it wasn't the story you might have thought that was going to be, but instead it was a story of, you know, here's this nice guy who's willing to go back and grab some whiskey and bring it to us so that we don't have to stop the party.

Um, so I thought that was kind of interesting. So number 10 for me, I had a bunch of different brands that I was kicking around for this number 10 position, something that I had not tasted myself, but that I liked the branding on. And I really liked that there was a deeper story that I needed to dig into in terms of its history. Uh, and that is, uh, coming out of the Campari group, their whiskey barren series, the Bond and Lillard.

Jerry Daniels (12:13.166)
Hahaha.

Drew Hannush (12:42.705)
whiskey

Jerry Daniels (12:42.966)
Yes, that was big to me. Actually did not put it in my top 10. I stayed away from putting all those, you know, I have an attachment to Lawrence Bird and I stayed away from putting all those in, but that would definitely be an honorable mention of brands been around into a lot of different, a lot of different places. And go ahead and tell us about it. It's awesome.

Drew Hannush (12:58.958)
Yes.

Drew Hannush (13:03.697)
So this is interesting because their slogan in the early 1900s was uniformly fine since 1869. And they had a picture. It was a picture of a guy trying to paint the wall, but his Dalmatian has a wet paint sign in his mouth. They were advertising straight and blended whiskey and

Jerry Daniels (13:14.764)
Hehehehehe

Drew Hannush (13:28.349)
Back then, I guess you had to promote how much grain neutral spirits you had because most of the ads back then would say it and it said that it was 65% grain neutral spirits in the blend. What I find interesting about this brand is as I started researching back, I kept going back further and further and further and come to find out that actually it's tied to a distiller named John Bond,

in 1820 was listed as having a distillery. And what's interesting is as I was doing a search on him, he and some other people were involved in a meeting at the Lawrenceburg, in Lawrenceburg at the courthouse in November of 1830 and see if these names, these last names ring true to you. John Bond, General C. Lillard, Andrew McBrayer, and

Captain Mark Lillard. And the reason that they were at this meeting was because Andrew Jackson had just come through the area and apparently he got into a tussle or something and got frustrated about this proposed turnpike that they were building between Lexington and Maysville. And so he ends up vetoing the bill.

And so these guys got together to throw their support behind Andrew Jackson's vetoing of that bill. So there's a interesting little piece of history there. Um, thinking that Bond and Lillard would be associated with trying to stop the creation of a road between Lexington and Maysville, which was a main thoroughfare, uh, through many, many years, you have a bottle of it there.

Jerry Daniels (15:20.926)
Cup of me.

Drew Hannush (15:22.686)
Now tell me, look on the back of it. Does it say produced and bottled by American medicinal spirits?

Jerry Daniels (15:28.858)
No, no, this is a newer button. Come on.

Drew Hannush (15:33.817)
I know, but I saw a photograph of it online. And when I was looking at it, it looked like the new bottle and that it said produced and bottled by American medicinal spirits. So I was like, is that really the back of that bottle? So apparently not.

Jerry Daniels (15:49.59)
Oh, it does. It is. You are correct. Yes. I probably need to put my glasses on, but it does say distilled and bottled by American medicinal spirits, Launchburg, Kentucky.

Drew Hannush (15:51.613)
Does it? Okay.

Drew Hannush (15:59.673)
which is interesting because American medicinal spirits didn't come along until 1927. And so this would have been something that they would have been throwing their name on any medicinal whiskies that came out at that time. But that McBrayer or the McBrayer, Saffold, Rippey, Waterfill and Frazier and William Tarr all were bought up by the Whiskey Trust in 1899.

Jerry Daniels (16:14.446)
and I'll see you next time.

Drew Hannush (16:29.085)
which was the Kentucky Distillers and Warehouse Company, which sounds a whole lot more friendly than Whiskey Trust. But it's interesting because they actually ended up winning an award according to their, I don't remember where I found this, but anyway, it said they won the grand prize at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair for the Bond and Lillard Whiskey. What's that?

Jerry Daniels (16:48.418)
On the bottom. It's on the bottle. It's on the back of the bottle. Yeah, right about that, yes.

Drew Hannush (16:52.569)
It's on the bottle. Okay. So here's the thing. How many people won the grand prize at the St. Louis world's fair? Because that's what Jack Daniel's brags about. And that's also what doers brags about. How many whiskies won it? This, this sounds like today's modern world of 600 different awards and you can win one of them.

Jerry Daniels (17:13.965)
Would they have broken it down at all? I mean, would they have said Scottish, you know, American, would they have broken it down in categories maybe?

Drew Hannush (17:23.497)
I believe the difference between Dewar and Jack Daniels was Jack Daniels was supposed to be the best whiskey in the world and Dewar's was the best marketing of a whiskey. So I don't know what Graham Prize signifies, but I've looked to see if I could find a list of the winners from the St. Louis World's Fair and I've never been able to find a listing for that. So anyway, but that is my number 10, which is Bond and Lillard.

Jerry Daniels (17:33.536)
Okay.

Jerry Daniels (17:42.35)
Hehehe

Drew Hannush (17:53.929)
So number nine for you.

Jerry Daniels (17:56.578)
Number nine. OK, this is my newer one. This brand was started by a very famous family that could trace their distilling history of back as far as the beams. They originally probably the first largest machinery created by this family was the TWC Emerald Distillery in Deetsville, right outside of Barnstown. He was actually probably by the I mean his father and grandfather. They were distilling, but they were.

farm distilling in the area. Uh, T.W. Samuels was interesting guy. He was a sheriff from Barsdown supposedly arrested, uh, Frank James when there were guerrilla raids after the Civil War and was actually through marriage, kin to the James brothers. Uh, but, uh, that was a distilling estate in the family for quite a while. Um, you know, it was T.W. and his son and Leslie. And then this.

This next generation, which was Bill Senior, who ended up having minority ownership, another group had bought into it and had majority ownership. And then they wanted to sell it in the forties and he could not afford to buy it. So he lost his family's distillery and he spent supposedly 10 years coming together with the recipe, denied that I liked the recipe that was made at T.W. Samuels distillery.

So he spent about 10 years, I think mostly, trying to find the money to buy a distillery. And he found this distillery and kind of down in the middle of nowhere, if you've been there, the old Burks distillery, where there'd been a distillery there since the early 1800s. He came up, the main reason we have this one on here, so it's maker's mark. He come up with everything in this bottle.

Drew Hannush (19:37.525)
Hehehe

Drew Hannush (19:48.04)
Mm-hmm.

Jerry Daniels (19:52.29)
But there was a particular lady that come up with everything else about this brand. You talk about one of the OG of women in bourbon was I think is very cool because, you know, she was a pewter collector and all pewter has a maker's mark on it. So yes, Margie come up with the brand, you know, the label. She come up with the idea of the wax. You know, everything about this bottle, which is probably the most famous.

Drew Hannush (20:08.699)
Mm-hmm.

Jerry Daniels (20:22.482)
I would say brand for marketing out in all of urban. I mean, you know, plans are school and stuff, but this has been around, you know, since the 50s. And I think it's very cool that a lady came up and, and you know, I would say that was a 50 relationship right there. He put everything in the bottle. She put everything, the whole of the whiskey that he made. So I mean.

Drew Hannush (20:43.421)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (20:52.064)
I love the story when they were trying to come up with a formula though that she was baking bread for them to try to determine what their mash bill would be. Which type of wheat?

Jerry Daniels (20:57.534)
Yes, yeah. And the story about him. Yeah, the story about him, supposedly, you know, setting fire to the old family recipe. Yeah, there's a lot of, I'm sorry, a lot of myths in both of those, but you know, it's a still a cool story. Do you know how long it was until they actually made their next, you know, brand, Maker's Mark? How long it was until they did a different style of Maker's Mark?

Drew Hannush (21:09.201)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (21:27.329)
I would have to say probably in the 2000s with the French Oak 46.

Jerry Daniels (21:33.254)
It was, I think this was first released in 57, 58 and the recorders 46 came out in 2012. That's a long time producing one style of this Dicker Bourbon and all you do, all you gotta do is ask Steve Mallee. He was the one producing it for a long time. But now this, like I said, it's the only one I've got that's post World War II, but I just, you know, we there at the

Drew Hannush (21:41.635)
Okay, wow.

Drew Hannush (21:52.277)
Ha ha

Jerry Daniels (22:03.062)
support women in bourbon and free muscle because they're married down at Grosse Street. And I was thinking, you know, she was one of the OG of women. So that's my number nine pick. It's not my favorite bourbon. I'm not a leader, but you know, the history of the family and Margie and just the brand itself, I think, deserves to be in my top 10.

Drew Hannush (22:13.253)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (22:20.425)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (22:27.625)
This is the one that I call the entrance bourbon. It was the first bourbon that I actually bought when it was time for me to move into drinking whiskey and I was looking for a bourbon. And I think it is, it's a great entry. I actually, I like the 46. The 46 to me is, it just adds that bit of flavor to it that I'm looking for, whereas we did, this is the one thing I've never understood about Makers Mark actually, is that we did whiskeys tend to do better with a lot of age.

but only recently have they finally come out with a older version of it. And so I'm kind of interested to know, you know, what that tastes like, because I have not yet procured a bottle for myself, so.

Jerry Daniels (23:03.162)
Yes.

Jerry Daniels (23:10.318)
I would love to have that too. Like I said, I'm not a big weeder. So if I do, I love makers 46, but I love it at a cast strength. You know, if I can get their stuff at cast strength, got a little bit of that pop to it. I'm good with that, but yeah, I'm interested to see the age cause this is what? Six, seven years old. And the bottom here, it's about, yeah, about that range. Yeah. But it's one of the most iconic, you know, bottles in the history of urban. I'm sure. All right. That was my number nine.

Drew Hannush (23:25.425)
Yeah, yeah, probably that range. Yep.

Drew Hannush (23:38.761)
All right, so my number nine comes from a family that you just mentioned with that one. And yet they've kind of branched off into multiple directions. They, at one time, I think they said out of the nine members of the distillery trail, they had a member at eight of them. And that would be the Beam family. But now this is not a whiskey that actually

Jerry Daniels (24:04.366)
Amen.

Drew Hannush (24:07.021)
was ever on the whiskey trail because it was owned by Brown Foreman at once the whiskey trail came about and that is early times. Created in 1866 by Jack Beam. 1860 is what it mentioned in the ads, but from what I was seeing they actually didn't start till six years later. What's interesting

Drew Hannush (24:36.629)
that they were the old time sour mash, which is something that we don't hear so much anymore. We sometimes hear it from Tennessee whiskeys, but we don't tend to hear a lot of Kentucky distilleries promoting that they're a old time sour mash whiskey. And this is what's fascinated me in doing my research for the lost history of Tennessee whiskey. And now why I'm so driven to find out more information about Kentucky distilling in terms of the early time fitting.

that I would say that, is that the things that Jack Beam prized in a whiskey were using natural fermentation, which is, again, sour mash to the old style, which was you did not add yeast. You just put baksa in there and then you let nature run its course, and then using copper stills over an open flame. And what I find interesting about that

uh, as well is that as I was doing some research, I came across an article in the late 1800s where they were the old time, they were talking about the old timers who loved bourbon. Um, that one thing they always associated with bourbon was a scorched flavor. And what they meant by that scorched flavor was they were making whiskey the way Jack Beam would make it, which is you leave the grain on and you distill it in a pot still.

and it's going to burn a little bit at the bottom of the pot still, because you're running an open flame under it. And it gives the whiskey a burnt flavor. And somehow these, these old guys just felt that was like, that's true whiskey. You know, it could be what you might consider a defect today, but they loved it because it reminded them of how whiskey used to be made. And so there was kind of this, uh, ro romantic, uh,

Jerry Daniels (26:20.76)
Hehehe

Drew Hannush (26:33.833)
feeling about having a scorched whiskey. I just found that absolutely fascinating because it does speak to lost styles and attitudes that just have not carried forward in terms of our knowledge of whiskey history. So additional piece of information on this too, it's really interesting that early times was one of the distilleries that did not sell out to the trust. And

So Jack Beam held onto it until 1915 when he passed away. Um, John Shanty was the man who took over for him. He died in the most peculiar way. He actually was going down to bring his dog in from a rainstorm, caught a cold and died from it. And so that is how early times ended up becoming available for Brown Foreman.

to purchase them. Little known facts. Yes. So yeah, the thing about early times that's interesting to me right now is that there's two versions of it out there. And now they're owned by Sazerac. Sazerac just recently bought them. And one of my favorite distillery tours of any that I've been to in Kentucky, which is no longer available as the Barton tour, and there was talks when they had

Jerry Daniels (27:38.026)
Love that.

Jerry Daniels (27:52.816)
Yes.

Drew Hannush (28:01.737)
bought early times that they were going to have some kind of a, um, uh, like a visitor center that was an early times visitor center. And I don't know what happened.

Jerry Daniels (28:12.438)
It was supposed to be the house up on the hill. It was supposed to be the house that set up at the entrance. I was supposed to be that. It'd be cool to compare them. Uh, you know, the two ones that were made by Brown Foreman versus the ones made by Zazerac eventually that would be cool. I just want to, has there been a more famous brand sold in the last 20, 30 years from one company to another? Yes. Can you think of one that, I mean, that was a shock when they sold it to me.

Drew Hannush (28:17.278)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (28:25.105)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (28:34.306)
of a big name like that.

Drew Hannush (28:41.244)
Yeah, well from-

Jerry Daniels (28:41.81)
No, it wasn't like a top chef bourbon that they were making, but still it was, I mean, early times there's a lot of history, a lot of breed association. That was a big thing for them to sell off to me.

Drew Hannush (28:58.429)
Yeah. And their reasoning, as I understood it was they were trying to elevate their brands. They wanted more elevated brands, but sometimes with these old whiskies, I mean, I thought it actually had a very elegant looking bottle for their bottle de bond. The one I thought they could probably do away with was the, um, yeah, there you go. The one I think they could do away with is the, uh, low proof Kentucky whiskey that they have that's aged and used barrels. Cause honestly, other than maybe a well-poured

uh, at, you know, as an absolute cheap whiskey, but there are whiskies at that same price that I think are, uh, much better than that version of early times. So, you know, um, who knows, but kind of, kind of sad that, uh, that, that they gave up on it, but we'll see what Sazerac does with it.

Jerry Daniels (29:50.218)
Yeah, yeah. Alright, that's. Hey. Now, like I said, this is the one that kind of took it to the heartstrings. Um, so this gentleman, uh, built a distillery in Lawrenceburg in the mid 1840s. Uh, he was actually known as a judge, Judge McRae, County judge.

Drew Hannush (29:52.361)
So you're number eight.

Jerry Daniels (30:15.086)
He was in politics, I mean he was in a little bit of everything. He was a contemporary of E.H. Taylor. Just like you send those awards, won many awards overseas, this brand did. And it actually made it, it literally went out to the whiskey trust. So I'm talking about Cedarbrook. Cedarbrook here.

Drew Hannush (30:40.797)
Okay. Yep.

Jerry Daniels (30:44.29)
Probably one of the most well-known distilleries of the late 1800s. I mean, I think he put it up there with, you know, the Oscar Pippers and the, you know, OSCEs and all them at that time, um, for like top, you know, best distilleries out there. Judge McBrayer. Interesting thing about him is, um, he passed away in 1888 and it kind of fell to his son-in-law, D.L. Moore, but he had a clause in there. That, uh,

After three years, they were supposed to remove his name from any association with the distillery. The son-in-law, D.L. Moore, was not going with that because we know him whiskey brand association is everything. So he actually went to court over that name and actually won. He got to keep the name.

Drew Hannush (31:32.958)
Hmm.

Drew Hannush (31:38.162)
Wow, okay.

Jerry Daniels (31:42.102)
But, you know, it wasn't for long. I mean, cause they did turn around and sell it to the Whiskey Trust in 1899. You know, it shut down during prohibition and the brand just disappeared. Uh, the cool thing about this brand besides being one of the best brands of the late, late 1800s is that the family descendants, a couple of gentlemen, you know, also called William Harrison McBrayer were just talking.

I know the younger one, Junior, Bill Junior said, you know, dad, hey, let's think about starting, you know, starting a whiskey. He's like, you know, we have this family heritage and, and all that. And they kind of put the word out and then they get this. Uh, message from a gentleman that we both know he's a, he's a Bourbon Hall of Fame historian that works at Allen's Filson a lot.

And he was doing some research. I'm sure you would have loved to found this, doing the research. I did some research that Joseph McBrayer had written. He corresponded back and forth with Ix Taylor, because I think at that time Ix Taylor was buying some of his product from him. And on one of those notes was a mash bill of what Joseph McBrayer was producing back in the late

Drew Hannush (32:46.569)
Hmm

Drew Hannush (32:59.123)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Hannush (33:04.88)
Nice.

Jerry Daniels (33:11.574)
So their family took this Nashville and ran. And just a few years ago, they released this WH McBrayer, which I think you have one of these, don't you? Batch one, I've never opened it, got the newer batches. Yeah, WH McBrayer, so they released that. And then the very next year they released Old McBrayer, another label they were able to.

Drew Hannush (33:22.181)
I do. It's very small. I have a mini.

Jerry Daniels (33:42.446)
to hold onto and you know, get and hold onto. And then this very last fall they released, I think you grabbed one of these two didn't you? A cedar, you did not get one of those? Okay. So that's the first batch of the cedar brook. Now it's a different, you know, this one is a different recipe than what that match bill was. But with that first release, this WH McBrayer wasn't the exact match bill that was used under the judge back in the 1800s.

Drew Hannush (33:51.481)
I do not have one of those. I did not get one, yeah, yeah.

Drew Hannush (34:08.526)
Okay.

Jerry Daniels (34:12.126)
Now the corn, I'm pretty sure he wasn't using, you know, bloody butcher corn back then. I kind of doubt that. But the recipe, you know, the mash bill, the recipe, it's 88% corn, like 5.8 rye, 5.8 molded barley. So very unusual mash bill that they were able to produce. And they're, you know, they're still going. You can go on their little, their website there, McBrayer Legacy Spirits.

Drew Hannush (34:21.393)
Yeah, yeah.

Drew Hannush (34:33.967)
Mm.

Jerry Daniels (34:41.802)
Get them, you know, get on their email and snag these as they come out. But, uh, I said, I don't mean it would be hard to find them more well known, uh, and good, you know, as good of a distillery as Cedarbrook was in the, you know, mid to late 1800s. So I'm just excited that premium was, was able to be brought back. And, you know, there's a lot of brands we talk about that we wish that were brought back, but that was definitely one I was excited to see.

brought back by the family itself. And this is it.

Drew Hannush (35:15.509)
Yeah, when I was in California, I saw a bottle of it and it was a medicinal bottle. So they held onto the name at least through prohibition. But then after prohibition, it's an interesting time period and I'll get into it with one of the ones that's on my list. But what they did to brands at that time was a little rough. So

a lot of reputations for what was great whiskey kind of disappeared after prohibition was over.

Jerry Daniels (35:48.91)
And a lot of those brands were just out there. That was just out there for them to reclaim. I mean, it's amazing that some of these brands are still out there today. That's a person could claim it if they wanted to. If they have the ability to produce it. Yes, yes, yes.

Drew Hannush (35:54.002)
Yeah, the witchism.

Drew Hannush (36:01.437)
that somehow heaven hill hasn't bought it already because they are the great collector of historic names

Jerry Daniels (36:09.819)
That's right, true. So that's number eight, Cedarbrook. We started around 1850.

Drew Hannush (36:11.23)
Alright.

Drew Hannush (36:14.66)
Alright.

Drew Hannush (36:18.245)
So the one that I put at number eight, probably a couple of weeks ago, might not have been on my list, but as I started doing some research into bottled and Bond, I suddenly got a warmer feeling towards this brand, and it is not anything associated with E.H. Taylor. Actually, it's more associated with James Bond. Do you have any guesses as to what it might be?

Jerry Daniels (36:30.766)
I'm gonna go.

Jerry Daniels (36:34.419)
Mm-hmm.

Jerry Daniels (36:39.244)
Yeah.

Jerry Daniels (36:43.758)
James Bond.

Drew Hannush (36:45.813)
Yeah. This is what a lot of people don't know is James Bond was a bourbon drinker in the books, but he was not a bourbon drinker in the movies. All although, although he did drink this particular bourbon in the movie. So, um, it is IW Harper, which is a brand that I also saw when I started rewatching old episodes of cheers.

Jerry Daniels (36:47.112)
Nuh-uh.

Jerry Daniels (36:53.546)
in the mix. Okay, that's the news for me.

Drew Hannush (37:13.425)
because Cheers was very open about showing what whiskies they had on their bar. So when he's pouring a Johnny Walker red, you clearly see the label when he was their first well bourbon that I saw was IW Harper. Uh, so I just thought that was really kind of interesting, but what I mean, I'm, of course I'm a big James Bond fan, so I'm, I would, uh, attach myself to a whiskey that was, uh, um, associated with him. It's in on.

Her Majesty's Secret Service in both the book, uh, and also in the film when he's meeting with Drago. Um, but what really got me on this was when I started digging into the history of the bottled and Bond act. And if you've heard my updated version of the episode that I did from season one, basically I found out while doing my research on the lost history of Tennessee whiskey, that EH Taylor really had nothing to do with the creation.

of the Bottled in Bond Act. That the one man who was really fighting against the Bottled in Bond Act was Isaac Wolf Bernheim, who is the man behind I.W. Harper. Part of the reason he was against it was because his whiskey wholesaling house with his brothers, it was called Bernheim Brothers, was selling Kentucky straight whiskey blended with Whiskey Trust grain neutral spirits.

did not want this Bottled in Bond Act because he wouldn't be able to take advantage of it. And so he fought it all the way down to the end. What's interesting is right before the vote on it, he told somebody that he pretty much knew that the Bottled in Bond Act was gonna go through. There was no way to stop it. And that at the time, there was a...

presidential election going on and it was William Jennings Bryant, who was for the silver standard versus William McKinley, who was for the gold standard. And basically what, uh, Bernheim said was, um, if William McKinley wins, then we're on sound money and I will put $40,000 into building a distillery in South Louisville. Well, a man, a man of his word, McKinley won the next day. He put in

Drew Hannush (39:37.865)
for the contracted the group to come out and build his Bernheim Distillery, which ends up being after prohibition, listed as the first distillery in Kentucky. So it got DSPKY number one. And of course, when Heaven Hill had their big fire, they had to go on the hunt for a distillery. And which one did they choose to pick up? Collector of all things old.

Heaven Hill there got the Bernheim distillery and that's how Heaven Hill now claims to be DSP KY number one all Surrounding IW Harper so much rich history there. It's just like how could I not have IW Harper in my collection?

Jerry Daniels (40:21.346)
So on the Cheers bar, was it the 15 year old I.W. Harper and the real nice glass of canter? I'm sure that wasn't the whale drink, was it?

Drew Hannush (40:27.777)
It was not. No, it was the, it was the, uh, it was the, um, gold label, uh, one, which I, I don't know. I, you know, I have never owned a bottle of IW Harper, but I tasted it while I was over at Stisse Weller, cause that's where it comes out of these days. Um, I don't know where they distilled the juice, but I do know, you know, but that's where the, where they're aging it from what I understand.

Jerry Daniels (40:55.702)
They're distilling there now. It's very small. They are actually distilling now. Yeah, they've got a very small still there. They are distilling. I mean, that's not, you know, maybe it's going to be IW Harper. I had a 15-year-old. My wife gave it to my stepson. You know, it's 80 proof. So it was a low proof, but it was a 15-year-old. The decanter is gorgeous. It's one of those, you know, the bottle was maybe better than the product.

Drew Hannush (40:57.766)
Are they?

Oh, okay.

Drew Hannush (41:08.562)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (41:24.473)
Yeah, yeah, it's a great tour over there. I mean, it's not much of a tour, but it's a, the tasting, the guided tasting is one of the best guided tastings I think I had the whole time I was in.

Jerry Daniels (41:27.393)
Yeah.

Jerry Daniels (41:32.674)
Oh yeah, they've got a new upscale like tour. I'm trying to think what it's called, but we actually tried a 26 year old Scotch on the tour. Yeah, so it's like a $75 tour and you get like three pours of old stuff, but it was odd. We're out in the middle of a bourbon tour and there was like, he's like, who wants to try this 26 year old Scotch?

Drew Hannush (41:40.901)
Really? Okay. Nice.

Drew Hannush (41:55.777)
Nice. I would have been like, all right, bring it.

Jerry Daniels (41:56.83)
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I think I forgot to mention you're talking about appearing on TV. With the Old McBrayer. If you watch, if you watch Deadwood.

Drew Hannush (42:02.504)
Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Drew Hannush (42:08.753)
I haven't seen it, no, I should. I should watch it.

Jerry Daniels (42:10.35)
Okay, so if you watch Calamity Jane on there, you'll see, pick up a bottle of this and chug it. Oh, McBride.

Drew Hannush (42:15.475)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (42:19.409)
Oh, very nice. Not the way we suggest drinking it. You should save her, but yeah, it's calamity Jane. All right, so I get to go a second round here because unless you did you choose two non Kentucky brands to point out?

Jerry Daniels (42:23.882)
Yeah. No, yeah, I don't think you saved anything.

Jerry Daniels (42:38.25)
Well, I mean, I was thinking of Tennessee whiskey and I'm not going to give the history like you can cause I know what Tennessee you've got, you know, you've got Jack, you got Dickel, you got the, uh, you know, the Greenbrier Nelson's Green Bear, I think has a history to it. You know, that goes back. Uh, so I was just thinking with Jack and just that time, you know, I think the brain was created about 18 seventies somewhere around that time.

Drew Hannush (43:06.937)
1875, yeah. Was, was when the distillery, when the distillery started at least anyway. Yeah.

Jerry Daniels (43:07.416)
What are you? Yeah, 1870s.

Jerry Daniels (43:12.766)
started yeah. But I think that ties to me to Uncle Nears and that whole story that's come from all that with him you know you know Nearskrim being his kind of mentor in the distilling educating him on distilling. To me that whole thing kind of goes together with me the Jack Daniels brand the Uncle Nears brand you know that's even though Uncle Nears isn't new. Just that whole story there between those two and the way that started between me.

You know, if I was doing out of state ones like that, I know you know their history, you know, frontwards and backwards. That's who I would pick as my number two, like the Alice State, you know, historical brand would be that. But I would tie it very closely to New York.

Drew Hannush (43:48.189)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (43:56.048)
Okay.

Well, I had a problem with my number two because I was kind of flip flopping between two and they both come from the same distillery, but they're both historic brands, uh, come to find out the Bell Mead brand no longer exists. It's now the Nelson's, uh, Nelson brothers. They've just changed the labeling on that. Uh, but that was tied back to the old, um, stables and kind of their tie to, uh, horse horse, uh,

raising, they weren't really much in terms of racing back then, I guess, in Tennessee, as much as they were. They had more show horses versus Kentucky doing a lot more in terms of thoroughbred racing. But,

Jerry Daniels (44:40.431)
We've actually been to the Bell Mead Mansion there in Tennessee. Yes. And we actually visited them on our Civil War tour. We actually stopped by there and they had the Bell Mead there.

Drew Hannush (44:44.037)
Oh, have you? Okay. Yes.

Yeah. Well, part of what drew me to that was that there's a lot of story behind that. That's really never been told in terms of the, um, uh, the, the association with Nelson's Greenbrier because for a short time that was actually bigger than Nelson's Greenbrier, which Nelson's Greenbrier everybody says, Oh, it was the biggest distillery in Tennessee in the 19th century, uh, that we've kind of learned since the Nelson brothers have brought that distillery back.

Um, but now after having just gone to the Nelson's Greenbrier distillery, uh, couple of weeks ago and seeing it's been in three phases. The first phase when I got there during the pandemic, they had very scaled down. Distiller this distilleries over there warehouse, and then like a little meeting room, and that was about it. Second time I go back was probably about a year ago. You got to sit in this beautiful tasting room and

There was a little event room, but beyond that, there really wasn't much else there. The distillery, you didn't get a chance to actually tour. This time when I went, it's like a completely different place. I mean, they have gutted it and completely rewired that place and it's beautiful. It has a full restaurant in it. It's got a massive gift shop in it. Uh, it's got a lot of the history and what was fun on doing that tour.

Uh, I didn't actually do a tour. I was there to promote my new book and was doing a news interview. Uh, but they let me come in and do the interview in that, uh, in their, um, speakeasy I'll call it. Um, but as I was sitting there, uh, and then walking around with one of their guides, uh, he was asking me all sorts of questions because they're really, we're still learning their history. And what I learned was that they actually had three.

Drew Hannush (46:42.313)
Charles Nelson actually owned three different distilleries at the same time. One he owned with a guy named John Speary, who John Speary was the guy who started the Bell Mead distillery after they split their partnership up. But they also had the Springbrook building, which was supposed to be the biggest distillery south of Louisville. And this was a state of the art 1870s distillery.

that had a column still. It's the first distillery I ran across that mentioned having a full column still, as well as having pot stills as well. And they made everything from whiskey to a bourbon. They said they made a bourbon in 1870, which I thought was kind of interesting out of state and that they also made cologne spirits there. So, uh, so that was interesting. But then also the Charles Nelson went up and bought the Greenbrier distillery in an area. Which was.

at that time famous for its whiskey, old Robertson. And he became the biggest distiller there. And after Belmeade burned down, he became the biggest distiller in the state. And that carried all the way through till his wife took it over after he died. And Louisa ran it for another 20 years before prohibition. And so I talk about it in the book how, you know,

an amazing career, 20 years running the most successful distillery in Tennessee, pre-prohibition. And yet we know nothing about her other than that she owned it for 20 years. Her obituary doesn't say anything about it because she died during a time when it was still kind of taboo to be talking about whiskey. So, um, so a shame in that. And the brothers have tried to do what they can to bring Louisa back into their story as much as possible. They named their pot still after her. Uh, and they also have a,

Jerry Daniels (48:34.434)
Hehehe

Drew Hannush (48:36.333)
a ward that they do for women leaders in Nashville that's named after Louisa Nelson. So nice story there as well. But the bottle is beautiful. They went back and got the original design of the bottle and it is so unique in terms of a look of a bottle and just a high class looking thing. And yet the whiskey is like 25 bucks somewhere in that range on the shelf. So

For me, I think it's a great story. And honestly, I think it was the Nelsons that really brought Tennessee whiskey history beyond Jack Daniels and George Dickel back into the minds of people. So a big appreciation for them for that as well.

Jerry Daniels (49:21.358)
They didn't do a little something different with their Lincoln County process. They do them through barrels. Is that what they do? Sugar maple, charcoal, and

Drew Hannush (49:28.009)
They do it through a barrel, they run it through a barrel, and it's a weeded whiskey. So that's a difference too, between what Jack Daniels and George Dickle do. So, Dickle's the high corn one, the Jack Daniels is a high rye, and then we have the weeded whiskey of Nelson's as the three top early brands there. So number seven for you.

Jerry Daniels (49:54.638)
Okay, well, we didn't match up. So number seven for me is early times. Yeah, that's our first match so far. It's early times. What little I can add to what you already said. I know a lot about the Bean family itself. The Beans go back until the 1790s with Jacob. He kind of passed everything down to his son, David. And then David actually had three sons that got into the whiskey business.

Drew Hannush (50:03.071)
that.

Jerry Daniels (50:23.922)
And you can pretty much trace about every distillery that is well known from those three lines. We know the Joseph, the Elbeen side, we know Stephen and all them. Coming from that particular line, so the Lime Stone branch and all them. And then from the David M side, we have Jim Beane and everything from that today.

But Jack was the other brother nobody ever talks about. You know, nobody really ever mentioned Jack, uh, and that particular line, because like you said, he and his son both died the same year, 1915, around before prohibition. And that was their last, you know, involvement with early times of still rate, um, I said it just to me, it's, uh, one of those brands, I can't think of a brand last 20, 30 years as, as big of that, but it's been sold one.

Drew Hannush (50:58.101)
Ha ha ha.

Drew Hannush (51:08.836)
Hmm

Jerry Daniels (51:24.722)
You know, distillery to another. But the, that beam, just think it's funny that nobody ever mentions that third line. I guess maybe because, you know, there was no, nobody descended down from the two. Uh, so it kind of just ended up there. Uh, but you know, the two other two lines are pretty well known. You know, Joseph, Joseph L. Bing, he upstarted Heaven Hill. He was the first master distiller at Heaven Hill, you know, and then Gus

Drew Hannush (51:39.261)
Yeah.

Jerry Daniels (51:54.026)
next to the main center line with David M and Jim and, you know, the nose and all that. So I just think, you know, he was maybe the forgotten bean with a very historical that, you know, it's actually to me, it's a gorgeous ball, gorgeous label. Like I said, if you want to drink it, make sure you get the bottle and bond.

Drew Hannush (52:06.217)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Drew Hannush (52:18.545)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I have a feeling we'll have one or two more, maybe possibly. All right. Number seven for me. Well, I mentioned this guy just a few minutes ago, uh, and I kind of, um, may have sounded like I was dissing him just a bit because I was saying his involvement in the bottled in bond act was nil.

Jerry Daniels (52:20.966)
So there's one we've matched.

Jerry Daniels (52:27.318)
Yeah, I would think so, yeah.

Jerry Daniels (52:33.197)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Hannush (52:44.817)
He was too busy fighting off other people in lawsuits over using the name Taylor. Uh, and that is EH Taylor and the brand is old Taylor. And, um, I think if I had my bottle around here, but old Taylor, what was the name? Ah, okay. Yeah. Old Taylor was the name that, um, was the one that he was fighting everybody off on, you know, we see the modern ball. Yep. There it is. That's exactly it.

Jerry Daniels (52:44.974)
I'm sorry.

Jerry Daniels (52:59.527)
I'll get it.

Jerry Daniels (53:12.981)
Mm-hmm.

Drew Hannush (53:14.077)
versus what everybody's probably used to now, which is the EH Taylor brand, which is sometimes a little bit hard to find. Thank you, Sazerac.

Jerry Daniels (53:22.794)
Yeah, this is pretty easy to find on the 1.75 plastic bottle, so it's not as hard to find.

Drew Hannush (53:29.31)
Yes. And so it kind of gets down to number seven, mainly because, uh, the juice inside of it is, uh, probably not quite as up the snuff as we might want it to be. That's actually a brand that they had to buy back from beam. Not too long ago. I had no idea that, uh, beam had held onto it for so long. Um, it's a, it actually.

Jerry Daniels (53:42.707)
Mm-hmm.

Jerry Daniels (53:49.739)
I think it was maybe through National that they got it because Bean bought National. Because National purchased the Old Taylor Distillery. So I think they got the brand when they purchased it and then eventually that was, you know, bought by my bean. So I think that's how the brand transferred.

Drew Hannush (53:55.326)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (54:07.045)
Yeah. And the only thing is I kind of wish that it was a bottled in bond because it would be fitting to, uh, to currently age Taylor from the standpoint that while he had nothing to do with getting the law passed, he was its only and biggest supporter after it passed and he used his marketing genius to, uh, push it. In fact, they said during the first four months of bottled in bond being passed,

They were shocked at how few Kentucky distillers were interested in taking part in it, yet currently H. Taylor set one of the biggest orders in history up to that time of bottled whiskey up to Chicago and to a wholesaler in Chicago. That was really where he started kicking it off. The thing is that frustrates me about this story is that as I go in and I start researching more on E. H. Taylor.

before the Bottled and Bond Act, his passion was exactly the same as Jack Beams was. He was about old time pot stills. Whiskey should be made in old time pot stills. And it's interesting because I actually was talking to David Meyer the other day after I was going through some old crow documentation. And I said over at Glenn's Creek, cause he's in the old bottling hall of that old crow distillery. And I said, did you realize that they had pot stills in that?

distillery up until the turn of the century. That E.H. Taylor was a proponent of pot stills. And so while it looks like that place was built for a huge column still, it actually started out as having pot stills in it. And I don't know if he would have been into making scorched whiskey like the old timers, probably not.

But that was his thing. He was quoted in magazines and he was really pushing the idea that pot stills and old time sour mash was the most important thing. And when Bottle Limban came along, he dropped all of that. And he never again talked about sour mash or about the old style of distilling because he found a new baby to market. And you'll notice from that time forward, and I don't know if this is his influence or not, but...

Drew Hannush (56:29.565)
People went to either bottled in bond or straight whiskey, but you lost sour mash. Suddenly sour mash seemed to only flow down in a Tennessee distillers talking about sour mash whiskey and Kentucky kind of abandoned it for a time. I'm, I'm going to have to go back and look in that time period between 1900 and. 19, 20, and see how many people were still using sour mash. Cause it, it does seem like it's a term that Kentucky just got rid of.

after a while it wasn't important anymore. No.

Jerry Daniels (56:59.35)
You don't see a lot of bottles anymore. Even I think what mixtures has it on there is they have a sour mash. There's not many that say like sour mash on them anymore, even though, you know, 99% of the distilleries use sour mash processing that today, but you know, it's, you don't see it on the label anymore, hardly. I guess oak, they still have it on that one, but there's very few that say actual sour mash.

Drew Hannush (57:14.129)
Yeah, yeah.

Nope.

Drew Hannush (57:24.049)
Yeah. Yep. Number six for you.

Jerry Daniels (57:28.438)
Number six. Well, this one I had to go. And then it's funny. It's got two sisters, the Steelers that are better known. Uh, the company that owns this sticker brand owns two other ones that are better known, uh, but this is to me a great product. And it's, you know, how can you leave when you talk about brand? How can you leave the first bottled bourbon off there? Oh, Forester. Uh,

Drew Hannush (57:56.565)
There you go.

Jerry Daniels (57:59.362)
So this was started by George Byron Brown. It was started with this, like I think it was a step brother, or half brother, JTS Brown. A lot of people know that name too. I think it's a Heaven Hill makes the JTS Brown level and bond, I believe. So both of them were very big and then into the whiskey history, George and JTS Brown. It's funny, he was originally drawn by George Foreman, not the boxer, but you know.

Drew Hannush (58:14.269)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (58:27.817)
Hahaha

Jerry Daniels (58:28.842)
back in the day and that's how it became Brown-Forman. I thought it was odd that they purchased multiple distilleries in Louisville. I've got a list here, they purchased the B.F. Manley distillery in there which eventually became the old Foster distillery. They purchased the White Rose distillery, became like the Brown-Forman distillery now they don't have all this now, but they also purchased Okanucket distillery in Savilly that became Early Town distillery. So they

Drew Hannush (58:43.815)
Okay.

Drew Hannush (58:55.902)
Huh.

Jerry Daniels (58:56.39)
about personally, you know, quite a few distilleries today. I think today, what is it? Brown Foreman that they pretty much produce out of the still re out of Louisville and they have location on, you know, on Whiskey Row. It's funny how this in the first bottle bourbon is kind of overshadowed by its two sister distilleries and Jack and Wiffer reserve. But I mean, to me, how can you leave the first

Drew Hannush (59:04.628)
Yeah.

Jerry Daniels (59:25.878)
Bottle bourbon off the list. Going all the way back to 1870, so the brand that he was creating at the time. And then, it's funny to tell you, it was named after a doctor, Dr. William Forrester, but for sure with two R's, not one. So I guess they decided to drop the one R. And these are great products. They just released their night cream 24. I don't know if you've seen that out yet. I saw it at the store the other day, grabbed it. It's a 10 year old.

Drew Hannush (59:28.904)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (59:32.754)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (59:52.686)
Mm-mm.

Jerry Daniels (59:55.982)
Oh Forester, but people when we get people on tours and we tell them, you know, if you like Woodford. If you like what for double. You might like old Forrester 1910. So, you know, cause they're the same as bill produced by the same company. You know, so if you're a fan of what for, I think you will love this too. But I think it's funny that it's been overshadowed by those other two names, even though.

Drew Hannush (01:00:13.838)
Yes, yes.

Jerry Daniels (01:00:25.11)
This thing has been around forever and Whitford's only been around, you know, 20, 30 years. Uh, uh, I mean, it's just hard to leave to me to leave the first ball of bourbon off there, so this is my number six, old Forester.

Drew Hannush (01:00:31.902)
Yeah.

Drew Hannush (01:00:42.493)
Very nice. And their rye that they just came out with apparently was a recipe that they had bought from the Norman, it was Normandy rye and it came from a Cincinnati, Ohio distillery. Uh, and Elizabeth McCall found that recipe and decided to make it. And, um, it's really good. I mean, when, when it comes to rye whiskies, you know, I love to taste the different varieties and it has a very unique flavor to it for, for a whiskey. And

Jerry Daniels (01:00:53.71)
Hmm.

Drew Hannush (01:01:11.997)
You can buy a liter of the stuff for 25 bucks. And I'm looking at, you know, some really high priced rye whiskies that I go, why would I buy that? I could get two bottles. I could get two liters of this. What you want me to spend on that bottle of rye whiskey. So, uh, well done on that and signature 100 actually for the longest time has been my decanter whiskey. What I keep in my, uh,

decanter when people come to the house. If you're drinking the house whiskey, that's what you drink in this old Forrester 100. So yeah.

Jerry Daniels (01:01:45.303)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean it's just. Yeah, that's my number six.

Drew Hannush (01:01:50.461)
Very nice, very nice. Number six for me, well, I'm cheating just a little bit. You bring it to Kentucky, then you're gonna fall into my category, even though it didn't originate in Kentucky, and that is Old Overholt. Now the reason that it's owned by Beam now, but me being a fan of rye whiskey, I have to pull some rye whiskey into this. But it's got a really interesting history too.

because they're a German family. They started out in North of Philadelphia. They ended up, the patriarch dies. The son moved them out to Westmoreland County. They actually established the town of Westoverton. And it's Henry's son who starts out as a weaver and then decides to partner with his brother in purchasing a farm.

And when you have a farm, you're going to distill. And so if, especially if you have a grist mill somewhere nearby, well, they didn't, but they kind of figured out a way to fix that problem. They had cattle, so they would take their grain on their cattle and ride it in to where the mill was miles away, get their grain ground, and then come back and ran it in a log still. So we think about log still distillery and

You know, JW Dant and the whole history of log still distillery were everywhere. A lot of people use log stills because they were less expensive. And so they still used copper, but it allowed you to basically set up, uh, at a, at a cheaper cost and usually just had one still. And so you would just rerun your whiskey through the same still the second time. Um, so that's what they did. And then, um,

Abraham apparently didn't like having a partner with his brother, so he just bought him out and carried it all the way up into the late 1850s. His son came in, Henry was helping him as well. Then when Abraham died, the son took it over, but he died not long after that as well. Kind of like the beam story. It kind of comes to a-

Drew Hannush (01:04:14.801)
what could have been an end at that point. But it ends up in the hands of Abraham's grandson, Henry Frick. And if you've ever seen the men who built America, yes, he is the...

Jerry Daniels (01:04:25.922)
The man who built O'Malley's guy. Cause he was kind of the, he was enforcer for Andrew Mellon or was it Mellon or Carnegie or Mellon or Carnegie? Yeah.

Drew Hannush (01:04:33.489)
He, uh, Carnegie Carnegie. Yes. Uh, and so all of a sudden, I mean, when you watch that series, he's like a villain as you're watching it, it's just, uh, he, he is the henchman. He's doing all the dirty work. And, um, so then it ends up that, uh, he's also the guy who asked them to, um, sort of cheapen how they were building the, um, South Fork dam where the Johnstown flood.

Jerry Daniels (01:04:44.234)
You are? Yeah, that's what you say.

Jerry Daniels (01:05:02.216)
Nice day.

Drew Hannush (01:05:02.597)
happened. In the end though, he loved the Overholt Distillery and so he did everything he could do to kind of hang on to it. But he became partners with Andrew Mellon, big banker, and then Mellon ended up, he left it to Mellon in his will, I guess. It ended up with National Distillers just like everybody else. The modern whiskey trust basically. So

Jerry Daniels (01:05:15.471)
Hell yes.

Drew Hannush (01:05:32.157)
But it's a really interesting history. And when it got to national distillers, they moved it to Kentucky. And, uh, of course, beam ended up buying a lot of the olds. They bought old granddad, old, uh, not old Forester, but old granddad, old crow and old overhauled. So, um, that just continued on with them. So it's kind of interesting looking at the bottle and seeing all this Kentucky stuff on it. And you go, yeah, but really.

This is a Pennsylvania whiskey that, uh, now probably isn't quite the same formula it used to be, but it's a really good bottle for a hundred proof whiskey. They've, they've kept the juice in it really nice. So, uh, applause for that and honoring that name.

Jerry Daniels (01:06:18.55)
Well, not to jump ahead or anything, but actually, I put that as my number one whiskey that came from out of state. Yes, that was actually my number one whiskey that came from out of state. I knew Frick on it, just doing the research and all that. But yeah, I'd put that as my number one. I know it's made here now, but I put it in my kind of out of state. You've talked about wanting to have out of state whiskies. And that was...

Drew Hannush (01:06:27.853)
Nice. Very nice.

Jerry Daniels (01:06:46.582)
That was it. I completely didn't name it old overhouse coaster though. You know, that sounds so much better.

Drew Hannush (01:06:55.266)
Yeah, yeah, that was, it was interesting when I was going back and doing the research though, that Overholt seemed to be just a popular translation of that name in the U.S. So I don't know how much they actually went by that name. So, all right.

Jerry Daniels (01:06:56.462)
So...

Jerry Daniels (01:07:06.178)
then.

Jerry Daniels (01:07:12.426)
Well, I mean, it's just, they probably just shortened it just like the bones with the beans, you know, so yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's the giveaway on my number one for out of state. So, uh, so we're at number five now. So we're at, uh, so mine was somebody that had a very good relationship with the man you were just talking about a little while ago.

Drew Hannush (01:07:18.789)
Yeah, yeah, there you go.