Ironroot Republic Distillery

Drew H (00:08):
Welcome to Whiskey Lores Whiskey Flights, your weekly home for discovering great craft distillery experiences around the globe. I'm your travel guide Drew Hannush, the bestselling author of Experiencing Kentucky Bourbon, experiencing Irish whiskey and the brand new book that Bus 24 of Whiskey's biggest myths, whiskey lore, volume one. And after an incredibly long day of driving, starting out in the morning in Paducah, Kentucky, then going to old Dominic in Memphis, and then driving into the night to Denison, Texas. I am now ready to introduce you to my third distillery on this great 48 tour of the United States Iron Root Republic in Denison. And this is not my first visit to this distillery. I was there back in 2021 and I was trying to dispel a myth about scotch whiskey and this idea that it became popular only because there was a oxa epidemic in the wine regions of France, and that meant those men and those stuffy gentlemen's clubs in London weren't able to get their brandy.

(01:18):
So they decided to sip on scotch instead, and then scotch just took off. So I wanted to dispel that piece of lore and it was season three. You can go back and listen to that episode if you'd like to. And I had learned about a man named T Munson and interestingly enough, iron Root Republic's name is inspired by T Munson, who was known as the Great man of Texas, and it was he that helped save the cognac industry. And so there's a relationship between Dennison, Texas and the cognac region of France. Robert and I had a really long conversation. Robert, one of the brothers, co-founder of Iron Root Republic, we talked for an hour and a half to two hours. You can go back and listen to that interview if you want to. It's actually interview number 18 on whiskey lore, the interviews podcast. And it was during that time visiting with Robert that we went back into the warehouse and did some amazing tastings back there just going through barrels.

(02:27):
And I really wanted to get back. And then I got an email that said that they were celebrating their 10th anniversary and that they were having a party and they were inviting me to come out and enjoy it. So I was already going to be in Bardstown, Kentucky. I wanted to do the start of this great 48 tour. And so it just coincided perfectly with my travel plans. So I drove out then in the morning got chauffeur in with some other media personalities. We started out by getting a little introduction to the distillery and Robert took us on a personal in-depth tour. He introduced us to their new lab and an area where they'll probably have some barrel storage and other stuff going on. And finally got a chance to meet Jonathan Robert's brother. And he and I sat there and chatted quite a bit about whiskey history and production.

(03:21):
He let me taste a whiskey that said Irish on the side. And I was like, what is that? And he said, well, we tried to replicate a pot still whiskey in the Irish style. And that was fun to taste still a little young, but something to watch for in the future. Their mother, Marcia, who is a great ambassador for the distillery, she took us through an incredible pairing of their spirits with a mixture of nuts, fruits, cookies and fruit, and went all the way from the base notes of the whiskey all the way up through the subtle nuances. So that was something that we actually said, you should do more of this for the general public. It was actually really an enlightening experience and got us into a deeper experience with the whiskeys themselves. We tasted their saints alley line, the Herald was my favorite out of that, which is a whiskey that is finished in a armc cask.

(04:19):
And that was inspired actually by a YouTuber who goes by the name of the liquor hound, Chris Trevino. And he worked with the distillery, a very cool experience to be able to get in and actually work with the distillers and blunders and come up with something special. And that really was and fits along with what the theme of Iron Root Republic is, which is this combination of taking French style techniques and mixing them with bourbon. And after an incredible dinner and some pairings throughout, we got a chance to taste their limited release called Team Danger, which was to celebrate their 10th anniversary. And it was a blend of whiskeys including one from their original barrel that they created at the beginning. So a whiskey like that can sometimes be a little bit rough because of course it's the first one you've run through the still, but in blending, they actually had an opportunity to shape the flavor profile of that. So I definitely appreciate them for inviting me out and I wanted to get you an opportunity to meet this remarkable family. And we're going to do it through Robert. I actually went on a Zoom call and got with him after I returned home. And I want to share that conversation with you right now. Where did you first get interested in the idea of distilling?

Robert (05:48):
That happened probably back in 2007, 2008 time period. We was at a family reunion in Spokane, Washington, and my brother and I and my dad, we were all there. We went to this Thai food restaurant with the full family in this little shopping center. And as we were leaving the Thai food restaurant and the same shopping center was this little distillery called Dryly that had just opened up. And so we had wandered in there and just became enamored with all the copper and the still, they have these beautiful Carl Holstein stills that they were distilling on and just was like, this is the coolest thing ever. My brother and I and dad had joked that when we retired, we'd start a little winery or something together, do something fun as a family. And after we left, I remember my dad turned into us and you know what?

(06:34):
This is actually what you guys should do when you retire, you should do the distillery. It's like, yeah, maybe that's what we'll do. So I kind of stuck in the head of us. And so you fast forward a number of years, I was getting ready to graduate from law school and I was like, I do not want to be a lawyer done with that. I wanted to do something with my hands. And so I was kind of just looking around and kind of what can I do? And my brother was like, you know what, Robert? We are young. We're dumb right now. You don't have any kits. You could eat ramen noodles every night if you need to. Why don't we look at whiskey? Takes years to make, why not start now rather than when we're 65 years old? That kind started some thought processes.

(07:19):
This is the September October before I graduated the following May. And so by the time we got to Christmas, I pretty much set my mind on it. I had started looking at business plans, watching some documentaries, I think on YouTube. I think the History channel had a documentary on whiskey making, and they had talked about strain of hands a little bit at probably the end of the video. It was one of the few non Kentucky whiskey distilleries at the time. And I was like, you know what? I think that's exactly what I want to do. And so at Christmas dinner, I decided that was the best time to announce to the family that when I graduated I was going to learn to go make whiskey and there was dead silence at the dinner table. Of course, I chose Christmas dinner. I knew that was the time of least resistance. That's when everyone was in a really good mood and no one wants to yell each other at Christmas dinner. And I just remember my mom saying, Robert, I know you know how to drink whiskey, but I don't think you know how to make it.

Drew H (08:20):
Well,

Robert (08:22):
That's, I'm going to go try to figure that out and kind of put us down this kind of crazy path. My brother said, if you're doing it, I'm doing it with you. And convinced his wife to let him do it. He was designing drill bits and saw blades for neurosurgery at the time. So he is a biomedical engineer and he and I just kind of started, went and took classes all around the country from different distilleries. You had a few of that. There wasn't a lot of books at the time. There wasn't a lot on YouTube or on whiskey making besides a little bit of moonshine stuff.

(08:55):
So we started learning and then ultimately we fell in with Nancy Fraley and the person who taught her was Bert Germaine Rabon. And once we kind of fell in with him, that was when everything really started to click for us. That was the French approach to distillation and maturation. It was all very thoughtful. There were a lot of things that they do for all different reasons if you get into spirit stirring, maturation in different parts of it. And we just fell in love with that style of distillation. And once we do that, we knew that we wanted to really start something on our own.

Drew H (09:29):
Yeah. Well, you don't normally consider the idea of French techniques in making whiskey in Texas. Talk about what was the landscape in Texas in terms of whiskey when you guys first started getting into this and kind of how you convinced yourself that this was a good way to go.

Robert (09:51):
Texas, my brother and I grew up in Texas. He was born in El Paso, went to elementary, middle school, high school, undergrad, college, all in Texas. So even though I actually wasn't born in Texas, I was born in New Jersey, but at the age of three, I'd spent most of my life here. So we were very comfortable, very home to Texas, but my brother's wife, her one rule she put on us if we were going to do something as dumb as starting a distillery was that we had to go back to Texas. Her family was here and she was like, I'm going to need that support if we're going to go do that. So that was like, okay, we are going to come back to Texas to start the distillery. So that's kind of one of the big thing. Texas was calling us home a little bit, but the reason why we ended up in Dennison specifically has to do with this kind of crazy connection to cognac France. And we had decided that we were going to use all these cognac techniques for making whiskey and kind of applying 'em to spirits that hadn't traditionally been applied to. It only kind of made sense to be in a city that had a really deep connection with the city of cognac and the region of cognac. So that's why we decided to come to Dennis and to really start the distillery here when we were ready to leave U Bear and come back to Texas. So

Drew H (11:08):
Did you know the story of TV Munson?

Robert (11:11):
I had heard it when I was in undergrad. So in undergrad I went to school in Austin College, which is in Sherman, Texas right next to Denison. So in kind of some of the just cursory things you hear around town, you heard the story about some guy in Denison helped save the French wine industry, but didn't know how deep that rabbit hole really went and how deep the connection was and how really important what TV Munson did really was and how then the cities have kind of connected over the years. It's been really, really cool. And for us has been really important too because even after we started up the mayor from cognac a, all of the masters still is, we actually come to Denison on a pilgrimage every few years. And so even after we left Bert, we had master cognac distillers coming to the distillery and tasting off the distill and tasting in barrels, and then ultimately inviting us go back over to cognac when they were distilling over there. And so we have had the opportunity and taking advantage of that to go actually over to cognac and distill over there with them during some of the distilling season and just really develop some really cool connections to cognac to the people there and to just that spirit even deeper than what we had even started out with.

Drew H (12:25):
Climates are very different though between there and where, so what were the initial considerations that you had to take to be able to make whiskey and not make it rough or overly oaky?

Robert (12:40):
I mean, I think when we first started, you look at the landscape of Texas whiskey at the time. I mean, we were really starting up 2010, 2011, and for the state of Texas, the actually first whiskey distillery since prohibition started releasing whiskey in 2008, that was Garrison Brothers with their bourbon and balcones with their baby blue corn whiskey. And so each of them had taken a little bit different approach, especially starting out by using some smaller barrels. And one of the things I will always talk about with the Texas whiskey scene is the distillers here are really open and really welcoming. Both Dan and Jared and the team down at Balcones from day one, they brought us in, they gave us a big hug and told us, Hey, for us, these are some of the issues that we deal with. And I think one of the things that's most apparent with Texas, as you mentioned, is the climate. It's so hot here

(13:35):
For such a long period of time that really does impact how things age, especially on the tannin extraction out of cask. And so that's when Jonathan and I, when we were looking at that and we started talking about some of the French techniques that were used. One of the things that the French do, because cognac is such a delicate style of brandy, is that they have to be very cognizant of of ts French oak is very potent. It's very big, bold flavors, and it can really dominate cognac if you allow it to. And so a lot of the things that developed over the years are how do you naturally manage tannin for them? They do some progressive aging from newer into older barrels. They'll change proofs during the course of maturation. They'll change warehouse types. They have what they call dry shas and humid shas, which I always joke, their dry sellers are still above 80% humidity most of the year, which we don't typically see that here in Texas.

(14:35):
But they would change some of these environments, some of the proofing in order to help soften and round off some of the harsher more intense tannins from younger French oak. And so for us, that was something that we really took notice of and we're like, Hey, if we're having issues with oak for a very different reason than they do in France, maybe some of these techniques will help with really rounding off the oak, allowing us to achieve older age statements without becoming too overly dominated. And that's really something that just really took hold. And so we've taken a lot of these traditional French techniques and adapted them and twisted 'em a little bit to one fit within the rules of bourbon. There's certain things you can't do with bourbon that they can do with cognac, but also to really adapt 'em to our environment and the speed at which certain things occur. So over the years it's been us having different size barrels. A lot of the, when we were first starting out, a lot of the shows were going towards small barrels like five and 10 gallon barrels, and we never did that. We always really liked larger cask formats. So we started out with the 53 gallon barrels, but over the years we even started adopting larger casts. So most of what we do even to this day is going to be in 65 gallon barrels.

(15:49):
So you can use some of that barrel size to help while not necessarily changing your climate, but changing just the environment in which the barrels are aging from the size of the barrels to even kind of controlling what proof we're extracting at different points of the aging process.

Drew H (16:12):
Imagine it's 1964 and bourbon is being talked about in the halls of Congress. A senator and a congressman from Kentucky are proposing a resolution where this legislative body would declare to the world that bourbon is a distinctive product of the United States keeping all other countries from treading on the whiskey that was born in Kentucky. Lo has it that on that day, Congress officially declared bourbon as America's native spirit. But is that true? Discover the truth behind this story In my new book, whiskey Lore Volume one, available in paperback and ebook on Amazon or through your favorite online bookseller, provide the audiobook on Spotify, audible and Apple Books begin your journey into the greatest whiskey myths and legends with whiskey lore volume one. So the other consideration, Bai's decided to go the single malt route initially, and you had the Garrison Brothers going right into corn whiskey. What was kind of your focus when you started out? Was there a decision point that you had to make or were you straight into bourbon straight off?

Robert (17:36):
So we did a number of things early on. I mean, I think for us, we didn't want to do any sourcing whatsoever when it came to our products. Initially we wanted to, when we first started releasing products, them to be really from us. And over the years, I guess in the last few years we have done some stuff that's some blending projects that we've done that have been really fun. But we really wanted to focus early on on our own housemate products. So to survive we had to do vodka, gin and some of those things. But as far as the whiskey and the very first things we distilled was actually bourbon. We knew that we wanted to start out with bourbon as something that was near and dear to my brother's heart, my own heart. But even though that was the very first thing we distilled, it was within the same month we laid down some corn whiskey.

(18:22):
We started distilling brandies because obviously with that connection to cognac and my brother and my love for cognacs and arm necks, it was within six weeks we were distilling some brandy as well and starting to lay down brandy. So we may be a little bit a DD at the distillery where we like doing a number of different things, but bourbon is still probably the primary to this day, still the primary product that we distill. But we do reserve time for us to experiment, play around with some different styles of whiskey from there is a little bit single malt in the distillery that we've distilled. There's rye whiskey, we've distilled a little bit of whiskey. So over the years we've done a little bits of different things here and there for fun and for playing around. So if you own your own distillery, if you're not playing a little bit, you're not truly having a good time, I don't think.

Drew H (19:12):
Well, it sounds like you've been playing around with some corn varietals as well.

Robert (19:17):
Oh gosh, yeah. And for us, that was one of the things when we started looking at that notion of terroir, that's talked all out a lot in wine and a lot in cognac in France of the flavor of an area. A lot of times in whiskey we prefer to use the term kind of provenance, something that really truly comes from that place. And so when we were started to look at and create our mash bells early on for our bourbons and corn whiskeys, one of the things we were like, how do we make these things truly Texan, truly from Denison, from this area? What can we start with that really speaks to that? And my brother really had the idea early on because in Kentucky bourbon, obviously most of the time the Ashville, you have a flavoring grain, either wheat or rye, which those grains aren't as I would say, traditional to this area of Texas.

Drew H (20:08):
And

Robert (20:08):
So for us, we were like, what grains really are traditional to Texas from where we're at? And the answer was pretty easy. It was corn. We've been growing corn here for a very long time, but when we started going back and looking at a lot of the agricultural records, what we noticed was that when we started going back 50 years plus ago, the names of the corn started changing. We started seeing different types of corn, like brown corns and red corns and flint corns, and a lot of things that aren't, again, the big yellow dent corns that we see up in Kentucky. And so we wanted to start playing around with some of those flavors and see some of those corns, do they carry different flavors? We know they're much higher in protein, have different acid structures. And so that put us down this kind of crazy path of where we first started working with grains and corns that were historically local to our area.

(20:58):
And that just got us thinking even more as we spent more years doing it of, well, what did corns from other places taste like genetically was let's look at some South American corns. Let's look at some corns from Mexico. Let's look at some stuff from Vietnam. Let's look at different corns that have really spread and developed in different parts of the world. And we found some really crazy wonderful flavors of the year. Some of them are from ones that are from the south, from Texas, from this area, and some of 'em are from Peru and South America that we fall in love with. So it's been a really fun ride over the last years, I think we've now distilled over 65 different species of corn.

Drew H (21:35):
Wow, okay. So it's funny because when I was over in Ireland at Waterford, they were running through a new heritage Arley and you get lower yields out of some of those. That's why a lot of those disappeared over time. And it was so interesting watching a distiller struggle over trying to figure out how to mash this and make it work properly. And so did you find that some of those corns are much easier to work with than others?

Robert (22:05):
Oh, a hundred percent. We always know that when we're dealing with heirloom and older varietals of corn, the yields are going to be lower. But to your comments, some of them are much more difficult to mash. Some of them you need to grind finder. Some of 'em perform better when they have a little bit more of a coarse grain, and it's really playing around with them as you start seeing now. Kind of got a better feel for it over the years now. But some of the ones, like some of the flint corns and popcorns, you got to get in there and grind them pretty darn good,

(22:32):
Even though you are going to get a lower yield from them just normal by the nature of how much sugar is in. But even to get that sugar activated, you really got to know how to play around with it. That even reminds me when we spent a little time over in Scotland, we went and visited a really cool distillery called Daf Mill, and he distills like a hundred barrels a year, but other than that, he grows barley for the whiskey industry. And he was regaling as a story saying like, Hey, every few years they actually change up and try out different barley varietals. And he was talking about why different ones were used, why different ones kind of fell away that they were developing. And I remember him telling us that there was this one that was as flavorful and as rich as golden promise.

(23:16):
It actually had a higher yield in the field, higher yield in mashing. But because of the way that the barley was, it actually took about 20 to 30 minutes longer to filter through the grain bed when you're sparking. And so because of that, the big companies are looking at if we are losing essentially two hours a day, how many millions of dollars worth of whiskey they were losing by the end of it. So it's interesting to see even over the years how some of those other concerns come through, especially when you're doing 24 hour production, which for us, if it took us an extra hour and be like, all right, no big deal. But for them, that throws everything off. So it's really interesting looking at how different distilleries make choices and how that industry really has followed that over the years.

Drew H (24:04):
It's amazing how shareholders can really kind of stifle the creative energy of a distillery, huh?

Robert (24:12):
It's true. It's true. The commercial demands do sometimes stifle the creativity. I think our biggest issue we run into right now is that we don't have enough whiskey. And so as much as we want to play around more, I also have to remind my brother sometimes like, Hey, but we also really do need to put out Harbinger and Promethean the whiskey that people really love and want on the shelf all the year. We got to make sure we're making at least enough of that to help suffice that. So I told him, I was like, oh, this is how many experiments we can do a year until we get another still and then we can play a lot more,

Drew H (24:47):
Which

Robert (24:47):
Hopefully this year we'll be fixing that.

Drew H (24:50):
Well, you are celebrating 10 years and that's the whole reason for my visit was to come out when you had a great celebration, by the way. Really enjoyed that.

Robert (25:00):
Thanks.

Drew H (25:01):
And you guys are expanding now. So talk about this journey and where you've been now. Where are you seeing things going as you're developing?

Robert (25:14):
I think what we've seen in the market for us and what we've seen just in the whiskey world is there's an increased desire for people to try new and different things. I think wanting to expand some flavors outside of some of the stuff that they're used to and wanting to play around more. And I think it's really a playful time period in the whiskey world. You're seeing the big guys play around even within their own stuff. I think what some of the experiments that re's done over there, I think that single project that they did is really cool. The warehouse X projects that they're doing really cool. I think there's always the photos online that passed around with the petered bourbon in their warehouses as well.

(25:57):
I think it's a really playful, exciting time for the bourbon industry or for the American whiskey industry because of the renewed interest and the willingness for people to go outside of that singular profile they may have drank most of their life so that they want to see what else is out there. And I think that's really helped out a lot of the smaller, newer distilleries. It's really kind of helped some of us from different regions. They're not the traditional whiskey making regions like Kentucky and Tennessee or even Pennsylvania for that matter, that when you get some of these different climates, when you get some of these grains grown in soils in different parts of the country, different still types. I mean, I think the rise of pot still distillation in the United States. I mean you went back 25 years, there wasn't any pot really running in the us There's a handful and now a lot of distilleries are using it and the different flavors that you can produce from that, it's a really exciting time.

(26:52):
So for us, it's looking at seeing kind of where the demand is for that. And we realized a few years ago that what we were capable of producing with the current distillery and size and stills we had wasn't quite enough to meet that demand. So for us to continue playing and to continue doing some of the things that we love doing, we knew we needed a new warehouse and some things that give us a little bit more breathing room. And also for us to experiment longer term aging. I mean, I think you got to try the very first distillation we ever did that was that 10-year-old bourbon with just the a hundred percent yellow corn as we were testing out the stills. But for us, it's playing around with that because a lot of the consensus early on was, well, you can't age whiskey in Texas that long.

(27:40):
You get over four years and you're not going to have anything left in the barrel. And one, I think we've proven that wrong, but that we want to play around with that more. What can seven years on an average do or 10 years or what would 15 years in Texas really look like if you use some of these techniques that help extend the aging in this part of the world with that more intense weather, what does that really look like? And I think that's been kind of the things for us looking towards the future is how can we play around with the things we've been playing around and continue exploring all these different grains, but also exploring the aging side to a different level than we've been able to just because of the limited barrel room space that we had.

Drew H (28:19):
Yeah, yeah. I mean the two times now that I have visited, both times you've taken me in the back and all of your experiments that are going on back there and doing little samplings, taking the whiskey thief and going, and so the one thing that I don't know is what the actual tour experience is like when just somebody off the street comes in. So give an idea of what somebody will experience when they come to Iron Root.

Robert (28:48):
And what's fun is we're even looking at even changing up and playing around with some of the tour experience. So some of this may change in the next few months here, but right now our standard tour is about an hour and a half here, maybe up to two hours depending on how many questions are being asked. But it's going to be led by either my brother, the head distiller, myself or Marsha. So when you get someone to give a tour here at Iron, you're going to be getting somebody who's been in the weeds here for a decade, which is really fun because we go through some of the history of Denison and the cognac connection to Denison. We go through a lot of our full process of how we go about making bourbons and different whiskeys talk a lot about the lavage process, go kind of in depth down into the rabbit hole, a little bit of maturing spirits here and how we go about doing that, the different styles of tastings that we do.

(29:43):
And then ultimately you get to taste, it could be 5, 6, 7, 8 products here, depending on what's on rotation in that period of time. You're get to taste a lot of different whiskeys from some of the blended projects that we play around with and have fun with to maybe different corns. You're going to get to taste a lot of different things on the tour. So for us, it's not only about just tasting the whiskey, but also understanding why the different whiskeys taste different and why they have different flavors. And when you walk away from iron, I want you to, one, to have had a good time and for it to been entertaining, but also have a little bit higher different level of knowledge than you had. Just if you've been to any of just the standard Kentucky tours, any of those tours, I want to give you a little bit more behind the curtain.

Drew H (30:29):
Look at what we do. I learn something every time I show up there, and it's a great family atmosphere. So I mean, it's fun to see you guys succeeding. And thank you so much, Robert and Cheers.

Robert (30:43):
True. Thanks for having me that

Drew H (30:45):
Well. I hope you enjoyed this visit to distillery number three on our great 48 tour of America's great craft distilleries. If I picked your interest in visiting Iron Root Republic, we'll make sure to head to whiskey lore.com/flights where we can view the profile of this distillery and nearly 600 others around the globe. Make sure to sign up for free accounts and add this and other distilleries to build your very own whiskey lore wishlist. Then when you're ready to travel, the site will offer you planning tools, maps, tour dates, booking links, and more. Start your journey@whiskeylo.com slash flights.

(31:25):
And as we pack up and get ready to head to our next distillery destination, I ask Robert to suggest a few places you might consider pairing with a trip to Iron Root. And he pointed out there are many wineries in the area. It's a great recreation area at the nearby lake, and if you're into birding, you can head to the Hagerman National Wildlife Refuge. And if you're more into that grape culture, well, you can head out to the Munson Vineyard to literally see the fruits of TV's, labors. And if you're still on the fence about visiting Iron Root Republic, let me give you my three reasons why I think you should have this distillery on your whiskey lore wishlist. First, if you're looking for more than just a process tour, and instead want do a deep dive into barrels and spirits, then Iron Root will take you to the heart of their spirits.

(32:16):
Second, thanks to Iron Root, French, cognac and armc terms like terroir, provenance, and lavage are finding a home not only in Texas, but also in the world of bourbon. It's a great way to experience both worlds and third, beyond the amazing whiskeys and deep dive experience. I love supporting the licorice family. They're friendly and fun, and their passion for what they're doing and what they're creating and their hospitality will shine through and make it a memorable visit. I started to pack up the car and head to a state where I was a little concerned that I might not be able to find a great whiskey experience, especially since this is a state that was notorious for being a prohibition state. But surprise, surprise, not only did I find a fantastic distillery experience in Oklahoma, I found a region of that state that reminds me of my Carolina homeland. Don't miss a minute of the great 48 tour. You can get your ticket by hitting that subscribe button. And join me as we travel coast to coast to discover America's great craft distilleries. I'm your travel guide Drew Hanish. And until next time, cheers and Slava for transcripts and travel information, including maps, distillery planning information and more. At to whiskey lore.com/flights whiskey lowers a production of Travel fuels life, LLC.